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Can MD LCP's independently indicate what a plaintiff needs for future care??????

  • 1.  Can MD LCP's independently indicate what a plaintiff needs for future care??????

    Posted 03-14-2023 15:36

    Hello everyone,

             I have a defense case that I am working on. It appears the plaintiff LCP is projecting care and indicates he is an MD so he can do so. Is there a clause on this or because he is a MD he can project care with minimal correspondence from other treating physicians. I don't want to sound presumptuous but to my understanding even if one is a MD they would need to seek outside sources (treaters) to utilize for future care. 



    ------------------------------
    Jenn Toles MS CRC CLCP CCM
    Guided Life Care Planning Services
    info@guidedlifecare.com
    Lithia, Florida
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Can MD LCP's independently indicate what a plaintiff needs for future care??????

    Posted 03-14-2023 15:48

    The judge will decide.



    ------------------------------
    Kenneth Dennis
    Rehabilitation Psychologist
    ken.dennis@juno.com
    Stillwater, MN United States
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Can MD LCP's independently indicate what a plaintiff needs for future care??????

    Posted 03-14-2023 15:52
      |   view attached
    You might find this recent ruling helpful.  

    Kelly



    Attachment(s)

    pdf
    Limits to LCP scope.pdf   84 KB 1 version


  • 4.  RE: Can MD LCP's independently indicate what a plaintiff needs for future care??????

    Posted 03-14-2023 16:07

    Thank you Kelly for your input 



    ------------------------------
    Jenn Toles MS CRC CLCP CCM
    Guided Life Care Planning Services
    info@guidedlifecare.com
    Lithia, Florida
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Can MD LCP's independently indicate what a plaintiff needs for future care??????

    Posted 03-14-2023 16:12
    Interesting distinction in this case Kelly - was the MD retained as a medical expert or solely retained as a life care planner, which I would argue is not a profession but a skill set - life care planning is a subspecialty practice.....

    The question presented is whether an expert witness, offered
    as a life care planner, may infuse his or her own medical opinions
    in calculating certain costs of future medical care when such future
    care is not recommended by a treating physician or medical expert.
    We answer the question in the negative.

    Thank you for sharing - interesting read by the courts in the FIRST DISTRICT COURT OF APPEAL in the STATE OF FLORIDA

    Best,

    Cloie

    Cloie B. Johnson, MEd
    (She/Her pronouns)
    cloie@osc-voc.com
    OSC Vocational Systems Inc.
    10132 NE 185th St.
    Bothell, WA 98011

    425-949-4406 direct dial
    425-486-8701 fax
    https://doxy.me/oscbothellcloie

    REMINDER I will be out of the office and unavailable March 15 through 26, 2023; April 18 through 28, 2023; May 17 to 19, 2023; July 3 through 7, 2023; July 17 through 21, 2023; October 24 through 27, 2023; November 20 through 24, 2023; and December 18, 2023 through January 2, 2024.


    Please be advised that I will be working remotely effective immediately and until further notice.  OSC Vocational Systems, Inc. is fully operational. Instead of facilitating or attending face-to-face meetings I will be conducting virtual meetings telephonically or via video-conference, unless otherwise deemed necessary.

    Disclaimer: The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact me immediately.





  • 6.  RE: Can MD LCP's independently indicate what a plaintiff needs for future care??????

    Posted 03-14-2023 15:55
    Hi Jennifer,

    The type or level of credential is really not the issue.  If he is working within his scope of practice, he may very well be able to project medical outcomes.  However, the strength of his projections are limited by the quality of his collaborations.  If he is relying on his expertise only and not collaborating with other providers, it might pass the minimum legal bar of acceptably admissible, but the reason we do research (N=many) or collaborate on an individual case (N=1) is because none of us is as smart as all of us. Do not be fooled by any credential as superior/inferior.  Be convinced by the quality of the evidence provided in the plan. 

    Aaron Mertes PhD, PCLC, CRC
    Assistant Professor - Montana State University
    Editor in Chief - Journal of Life Care Planning








  • 7.  RE: Can MD LCP's independently indicate what a plaintiff needs for future care??????

    Posted 03-14-2023 16:05

    Aaron thank you for your input. I understand the that we are all LCP's and no one is superior to another. The concern is the actual LCP standard. The MD was not retained to conduct an IME but to actually be utilized as a LCP. I was wondering if there is a statute as the LCP report seems subjective and not as an objective party. 



    ------------------------------
    Jenn Toles MS CRC CLCP CCM
    Guided Life Care Planning Services
    info@guidedlifecare.com
    Lithia, Florida
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Can MD LCP's independently indicate what a plaintiff needs for future care??????

    Posted 03-14-2023 15:58
    Short answer - YES, but......are the qualified in all 4 LCP domains of foundation for a life care plan (Medical, Psychological, Case Management and Vocational Rehabilitation)?

    According to the 4th Edition of the Standards of Practice (https://cdn.ymaws.com/rehabpro.org/resource/collection/D5B16132-B4BE-4918-BA5A-1BABE8C2E1A4/SOP4_101122.pdf)

    This is very clearly noted that the life care planner makes recommendations within their own scope of practice and consults with others and obtains education when the life care planner must address health care needs that are new or unfamiliar.

    Additionally they must follow the Standards of Practice and the Majority and Consensus Statements.

    The practice competencies provide ways that the life care planner demonstrates compliance with the standards. The competencies listed may not be exhaustive and may change as the
    specialty practice and the needs of those who use life care plans evolves.

    1. STANDARD: The life care planner has an educational background and professional preparation suitable for life care planning.
    PRACTICE COMPETENCIES:
    a. Possesses the appropriate educational requirements in a rehabilitation or health care field as defined by their professional discipline.
    b. Maintains the current professional licensure, provincial registration, or national board certification that is required to practice their professional rehabilitation or health care discipline.
    c. Demonstrates that the professional discipline provides sufficient education and training to assure that the life care planner has an understanding of human anatomy and physiology, pathophysiology, psychosocial and family dynamics, the health care delivery system, the role and function of various health care professionals, and clinical practice guidelines and standards of care. Within their profession's scope of practice, the education and training allow practitioners in the discipline to independently perform assessments, analyze and interpret data, make judgments and decisions on goals and interventions, and evaluate responses and outcomes.
    d. Participates in specific continuing education as required to maintain the individual practitioner's licensure, registration, or certification within their profession.
    e. Obtains continuing education and/or training to remain current in the knowledge and skills relevant to life care planning.

    2. STANDARD: The life care planner practices within their professional scope of practice.
    PRACTICE COMPETENCIES:
    a. Remains within the scope of practice for their profession as determined by state, provincial, or national credentialing bodies.
    b. Independently makes recommendations for care items/services that are within the scope of practice of their own professional discipline.

    3. STANDARD: The life care planner must have skill and knowledge to understand the health care needs addressed in a life care plan.
    PRACTICE COMPETENCIES:
    a. Consults with others and obtains education when the life care planner must address health care needs that are new or unfamiliar.
    b. Locates appropriate resources when necessary.
    c. Uses a consistent, objective, and thorough methodology to construct the life care plan.
    d. Relies on appropriate medical and other health related information, resources, and professional expertise for developing the content of the life care plan.
    e. Uses specialized skills such as the ability to research, critically analyze data, manage and interpret large volumes of information, attend to details, demonstrate clear and thorough written and verbal communication skills, develop positive relationships, create and use networks to gather information, and work autonomously.
    Best,

    Cloie

    Cloie B. Johnson, MEd
    (She/Her pronouns)
    cloie@osc-voc.com
    OSC Vocational Systems Inc.
    10132 NE 185th St.
    Bothell, WA 98011

    425-949-4406 direct dial
    425-486-8701 fax
    https://doxy.me/oscbothellcloie

    REMINDER I will be out of the office and unavailable March 15 through 26, 2023; April 18 through 28, 2023; May 17 to 19, 2023; July 3 through 7, 2023; July 17 through 21, 2023; October 24 through 27, 2023; November 20 through 24, 2023; and December 18, 2023 through January 2, 2024.


    Please be advised that I will be working remotely effective immediately and until further notice.  OSC Vocational Systems, Inc. is fully operational. Instead of facilitating or attending face-to-face meetings I will be conducting virtual meetings telephonically or via video-conference, unless otherwise deemed necessary.

    Disclaimer: The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact me immediately.





  • 9.  RE: Can MD LCP's independently indicate what a plaintiff needs for future care??????

    Posted 03-14-2023 16:45

    Thank you Cloie



    ------------------------------
    Jenn Toles MS CRC CLCP CCM
    Guided Life Care Planning Services
    info@guidedlifecare.com
    Lithia, Florida
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Can MD LCP's independently indicate what a plaintiff needs for future care??????

    Posted 03-14-2023 17:52

    To tie in with what Cloie and Aaron have said, the Standards of Practice 4th Edition mentions collaboration in the forward, the introduction (transdisciplinary perspective), the philosophical overview, the scope of practice, and standards 11, 12, and 13, indicating that life care planning needs to be a collaborative process.



    ------------------------------
    Laura Woodard, MA, CRC, CLCP, CCM
    Rehabilitation Counselor
    ReEntry Rehabilitation Services Inc.
    Lakewood, CO United States
    lwoodard@reentry.comWoodard
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Can MD LCP's independently indicate what a plaintiff needs for future care??????

    Posted 03-15-2023 12:30
    Dear Jennifer,

    As usual, the collective input from this group proves to be invaluable. As practicing life care planners, we practice without licensure, so unlike other occupations, we are not strictly regulated by any one entity, including any one certifying body. Rather, we receive guidance from the collective as manifested in peer-reviewed documents and processes. Some of these include the Standards of Practice previously mentioned. These also include peer-reviewed journals and as such I would point you to the Journal of Life Care Planning volume 17(1) which was guest edited by my esteemed colleague Karen Preston. In this issue, the scope of practice for many of the disciplines involved in life care planning (including MD life care planners) was outlined. There are charts at the back of this issue that outline what is within the scope of practice for each occupation. 

    Additionally, issue 16(4), which was guest edited by Cloie Johnson (who has already provided guidance on this topic) will be useful to you in terms of Consensus and Majority Statements. Both of these documents have long histories in life care planning and for more about their histories, JLCP volume 17(3) is recommended. 

    All of these issues, as well as other articles that may be useful for you can be found here:

    The process of collaboration has been well-documented in life care planning literature. In addition to the above documents, I believe you will find this discussed in the following documents:
    1. The American Academy of Physician Life Care Planners Standards of Practice
    2. Life Care Planning: A Step-by-Step Guide (Weed & Owen, 2018)
    3. Life Care Planning and Case Management Handbook, 4th edition (Weed & Berens, 2018, p. 625) 
    4. Neulicht et al (2001) Role and function study

    This topic has also been addressed in the 5th edition of the Life Care Planning & Case Management Handbook.

    As Kenneth Dennis mentioned, in every case it is the judge who serves as gatekeeper so ultimately the judge in this case will decide what the individual life care planner can and cannot do. However, I would strongly encourage your retaining attorney to do their due diligence in reading previous legal decisions where this opinion has been proffered. I believe they will find that the legal community has also disagreed with the assertion you are confronting. 

    These documents reflect years of work and when taken in totality demonstrate how important the transdisciplinary component to life care planning is. Hopefully, they will be helpful to you when serving to educate the parties involved in your case. 
    Tanya Rutherford Owen, Ph.D., CRC, CLCP, CDMS, LPC, FIALCP
    Owen Vocational Services, Inc.
    Managing Editor- Journal of Life Care Planning
    Managing Editor- The Rehabilitation Professional
    1706 E Joyce Blvd Suite 2

    Fayetteville, AR 72703
    (479) 718-6631
    Fax (501) 421-6043





  • 12.  RE: Can MD LCP's independently indicate what a plaintiff needs for future care??????

    Posted 03-17-2023 11:54
    As a physician who develops life care plans, I have to chime in on this. I have also presented the physician’s scope of practice during a panel presentation at the 2021 virtual Symposium to refer to if you are able.

    I’ll admit that the scope of practice for physicians can be more broad than other specialties, because our physical examination, and ability to order a wide range of diagnostic testing, therapies, referrals, etc., as well as the understanding of indications for a variety of procedures, etc., are inherent to the profession. I don’t always find it necessary to speak directly to a treating physician if their treatment plan is well described in the medical record and the standard of practice and preponderance of the medical literature point toward the typical plan of care for an individual. To me, that is my collaboration, and doesn’t waste both of our times if unnecessary. Having said that, I contact treating providers frequently for life care plans, for clarity.

    Additionally, I do not make it a practice to project items or services not discussed or not clearly referred to in the medical record review, but rather may refer to some as potential care in the discussion of the life care plan. That, I believe, is educational for the intended end-users of the life care plan…the evaluee, the family, the treatment providers, case manager, trust officer if applicable, etc. Where I understand some physician life care planners get into trouble is that they either make their own specific treatment recommendations without medical foundation or they disagree with the treating physician’s plan of care and write in their own. I’ve been asked related questions to this in deposition time and time again, and have made sure to note that the treaters are the “boots on the ground” for the individual. Having medical foundation based upon the medical record review, the interview, evaluation, and examination of the evaluee and family, the standards of practice and medical literature supporting the mitigation of known complications of specific disorders is, or should be, the goal of every life care planner.

    Kristi B. Bagnell, MD, CLCP




  • 13.  RE: Can MD LCP's independently indicate what a plaintiff needs for future care??????

    Posted 03-17-2023 12:08

     

    Hello,

     

    Thank you for your post. What is interesting to me on this topic is that many clinical professions have as their core competency "physical examination" in addition to training in a series of "assessments" that go beyond physical examination ie psycho social assessment etc.  also of interest for me is the concept that any particular license MD, RN, PA, NP etc would have a clinical specialty across all areas......  For example, I don't see an MD cardiologist ever purporting to be a causation expert for a neurological issue. Same thing for NP who has active OB/GYNE practice ever provide a causation opinion for oncology area.  Both have "assessment" in their training and no doubt ongoing CEU work.  I agree with you the focus should be the practice standards. One of the attributes of the IARP standards is that it is focused on methodology and application versus making statements on what type of license is qualified to prepare life care plans. 

     

    Rebecca M S Busch,

    RN, MBA, CCM, CFE, CPC, CHPA-IV, CRMA, CICA, FIALCP, FHFMA

    CEO, Medical Business Associates MBE* WBE* WOSB* Certified Firm

    www.mbaaudit.com

     

    Author: "The Cyber Patient, Navigating Health Informatics" 2019; "A Practitioner's Tool Kit for Patient Advocacy" 2017; "Leveraging Data in Healthcare: Best Practices for Controlling, Analyzing, and Using Data" 2016; "Healthcare Fraud Audit & Detection Guide" 2nd Edition 2012 "Electronic Healthcare Records An Audit & Internal Control Guide" "Personal Healthcare Portfolio" 2010

     

    This communication, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of addressee and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, dissemination or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return mail and delete this communication and destroy all copies.

     

     






  • 14.  RE: Can MD LCP's independently indicate what a plaintiff needs for future care??????

    Posted 03-17-2023 18:17

    " I don't see an MD cardiologist ever purporting to be a causation expert for a neurological issue."

    That occurs all the time because 80 percent of all Dementia is Alzheimer's, but 30 percent is vascular. There is literature and case law documenting Tinnitus causing cardiovascular disorders (Heart Attacks and Strokes). Physicians have training in all areas and can be (and frequently are) causation experts (Expert Witnesses) in all aspects of human functioning. I am very familiar with a physician that is an expert in every disability except for Psychology and another physician that is an expert in every disability including Psychology. They have no problem being recognized by the courts as Expert Witnesses. There have always been non-physicians here claiming they had special training or skills that exceed that of physicians, but being an Expert Witness is a threshold distribution. Physicians of all specializations clear the threshold quite easily. 



    ------------------------------
    Kenneth Dennis
    Rehabilitation Psychologist
    ken.dennis@juno.com
    Stillwater, MN United States
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: Can MD LCP's independently indicate what a plaintiff needs for future care??????

    Posted 03-17-2023 14:05

    Kristi,

    Your answer helps to understand this better. Question: When the evaluee is not being treated by someone who specializes in the area of need, and who may not know what should be recommended, do you add recommendations that are within your specialty? I see this when evaluees have not had access to the correct specialists (usually due to funding/insurance issues).



    ------------------------------
    Karen Preston
    Consultant
    kpreston@rns-hcc.com
    Sacramento, CA United States
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: Can MD LCP's independently indicate what a plaintiff needs for future care??????

    Posted 03-17-2023 14:34
    Within my specialty, and if that is how the evaluee would be best served, I have added projections for such specialists...ironically, this sometimes includes a developmental pediatrician, neurologist, or physiatrist, for example, with expertise in treatment of spasticity, with medications, injections, splinting, potential surgeries, and the like.  These are physicians that I have referred to while practicing in rural areas.  Unfortunately, the individual must often travel for the expertise.






  • 17.  RE: Can MD LCP's independently indicate what a plaintiff needs for future care??????

    Posted 03-16-2023 20:03

    Jennifer, thanks for raising this question in a public forum so we can all learn.

    And thanks to Cloie for pointing out the relevant standards.

    In addition, please refer to the new section in the 4th edition of the standards of practice called "Scope of Practice". This provides a concrete guide for assessing a person's ability to opine. It is much more than the professional credential.



    ------------------------------
    Karen Preston
    Consultant
    kpreston@rns-hcc.com
    Sacramento, CA United States
    ------------------------------