Thanks for the comments, Rebecca. I agree that this would be an interesting presentation. I think that some attorneys do cross the line and ask their retained experts (not just LCPlanning experts) to engage in what would be considered "questionable" conduct. What we do when those situations arise says a lot about who we are.
Feel free to call the office, (602) 285-0625, speak to my assistant, Linda Welsch and she will book some time for us to chat.
Colleagues, I would have preferred to reply to Rebecca privately, but do not see an e-mail address for her, only her website address.
Robert H. Taylor
1987 Haven's End
Prescott, AZ 86305
(928) 713-6833
On Feb 20, 2013, at 4:25 AM, Rebecca Busch wrote:
>
> Actually I would like to set a time to talk to you. I think the presentation
> is very informative without your live commentaries and has prompted more
> questions in an academic inquisitive way in my mind. If I had my wish list
> as members we would turn in abstracts of experiences respectfully so we may
> learn from them.
>
> I would like to see a presentation on how (as a testifying expert) to handle
> unethical conduct by attorney"s working w life care planners regardless of
> being hired by plaintiff or defense. In essence the inverse of your
> presentation.
>
> Also a side bar in handling misrepresentations through out the LCP process
> that may manifest themselves.
>
> Thank you for posting it
>
> Rebecca Busch
>
Www.mbaaudit.com
> 630 789 9000
>
>
>
> On Feb 19, 2013, at 11:51 PM, "Robert Taylor" wrote:
>
>>
>> There are multiples "layers" to this discussion that I have not been able to
>> review until this evening. The first "layer" concerns Lois' initial post
>> which I thought bizarre as it came out of nowhere. I also did not understand
>> the basis for Lois' attack on Michele and me, even though our names were not
>> mentioned; our ISLCP 2012 presentation, however, most certainly was.
>>
>> Suffice to say, all of Lois' comments were totally without merit. Anyone who
>> was present at the 2012 ISLCP and saw our presentation, listened to it and
>> read the PowerPoint understood it for what it was intended to be:
>> educational. People could take away what they wanted to. If people
>> disagreed with the presentation, they could do so. There was no "right" or
>> "wrong" in the presentation. If people agreed, that was also their choice.
>> Comments about "ethics police," as George Cyphers so properly discussed in
>> his post are counterproductive and serve no constructive purpose.
>>
>> I thank the ISLCP and FLCPR Education Committee for approving our proposal
>> and allowing Michele and me to present. The overwhelming feedback we
>> received afterwards was positive. As with any ethics presentation, one needs
>> to decide how it should apply to them. With over 50 years of experience
>> (most of them mine...Michele is not nearly as old as me!), over 1,000
>> depositions and 100 jury trials between us, we thought we had something to
>> offer to most attendees. Maybe that experience means something? Curiously,
>> I don't recall seeing Lois on the list of ISLCP attendees; still, it was she
>> who opened this door and went on the attack. Why, I don't know. Only she
>> does. I have learned after 35+ years of experience that when someone reacts
>> with defensiveness and open hostility, they should look in the mirror and
>> ask why they are reacting that way.
>>
>> I have always found conference presentations that gave "real-world"
>> experiences to be the most valuable. Lois has obviously never attended an
>> IARP conference where Roger Weed presented and shared excerpts of deposition
>> testimony given by our colleagues as a teaching tool. If she had, she would
>> know that the intent of any presentation is to provide education, as Roger
>> has done using this approach for more years than I can count and as Michele
>> and I attempted to do.
>>
>> Something that I will no tolerate, however, is baseless attack, which
> Michele
>> responded to. I compliment her for doing so.
>>
>> If anyone is intent on filing an ethics complaint against a colleague (and I
>> have no idea what the basis for that would be) they should know that the
>> first step is to contact that individual and try to resolve the issue.
>> Lois, if you believe Michele and I have acted in an unethical manner, please
>> call us at (602) 285-0625. We will talk to you. If you don't, we will know
>> there was no basis for your attack in this forum.
>>
>> For anyone who has not seen the PowerPoint Lois refers to and was not
> present
>> at the 2012 ISLCP, it can be seen on our website,
>>
www.Vocationaldiagnostics.com. We welcome your comments.
>>
>> Robert H. Taylor M.A., L.P.C., C.R.C., C.D.M.S., C.L.C.P.
>> VOCATIONAL DIAGNOSTICS, INC.
>> 3030 N. Central Ave. Suite 406
>> Phoenix, AZ 85012
>> (602) 285-0625
>> Fax (602) 264-4838
>>
bobt@vocationaldiagnostics.com
>>
www.vocationaldiagnostics.com
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>
>> On Feb 19, 2013, at 11:45 AM, Dan Bagwell wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ms. Albers: Your response to those who might challenge your opinion should
>>> be tempered commensurate with your professional training, experience,
>>> licensure and certification. I find this inappropriate for such
> interaction
>>> within a professional communication vehicle as this. Many equally
> qualified
>>> professionals were present at the 2012 ISLCP who may have different
> opinions
>>> than yours, as was presented. I recall that the presentation raised some of
>>> those differing opinions in questions following the presentation you and
> Bob
>>> so graciously shared. Yet, I do not recall anyone using that forum to
>>> embarrass or attack either of you, and the discussion were carried out
>>> professionally. Let's do the same here.
>>> -------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Dan Bagwell, BSN, RN, CLCP, CCM, CDMS
>>> Cheif Executive Office
>>> Rehabilitaiton Professional Consultants, Inc.
>>>
dmbhome@swbell.net
>>> San Antonio, TX United States
>>> -------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------
>>> Original Message:
>>> Sent: 02-19-2013 11:17
>>> From: Michele Albers
>>> Subject: Who is the Ethics Police - the Life Care Planner Gate Keeper
>>>
>>> Ms. Hawkins,
>>>
>>> I highly encourage you to take your "complaint" to the ICHCC and request an
>>> "ethics review" with the "ethics police." This power point presentation
>>> that you are referencing was written by myself and my colleauge, Bob, but
>>> you already knew that, didn't you?
>>>
>>> Tell the ICHCC how unhappy you are that you are being called out and
>>> "attacked" because you are a nurse. Did you attend the ISLCP in Denver
>>> where this presentation was given? I don't recall if you were there or
> not,
>>> because I have never met you and yet, you have the audacity to infer that
> I
>>> am breaching the ethics of Life Care Planning because we discussed case
>>> examples in our continuing education approved presentation.
>>>
>>> Please tell the ICHCC that you are "upset" that we used case examples. Do>
>> you see case names? CV numbers? Dates of trial or deposition? No, you do
>>> not. Furthermore, do you see ANY LIFE CARE PLANNER'S NAME ON THAT
>>> PRESENTATION BESIDES ME AND BOB? AGAIN, THE ANSWER IS NO.
>>>
>>> Yes, I am tired of "professionals" like yourself. You know EXACTLY why you
>>> are upset about this presentation and you want retribution, don't you?
>>>
>>> I am fed up with the intolerable postings of "professionals" like you...I
>>> could care less that you are a nurse life care planner. I don't "make up
>>> the rules" in how to prepare a Life Care Plan. I don't "make up"
>>> methodology and foundation for Life Care Plans. I just adhere to these as
> a
>>> PROFESSIONAL LIFE CARE PLANNER. I could care less about your ability to
>>> "diagnosis" and "make recommendations" because you are a NURSE. I am a
>>> LICENSED PROFESSIONAL COUNSELOR. Does that mean I can diagnose and make
>>> treatment recommendations for someone with schizo-affective disorder?
>>>
>>> Please, feel free to send your "complaints" to the governing body of our
>>> distinguished field and let them know how we "breached" our ethical duty.
> I
>>> would love to hear their response.
>>>
>>> Something I tell my four children under the age of 12....If you have
> nothing
>>> nice to say, then don't say anything at all. Food for thought Ms.
>> Hawkins...
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>> Michele J. Albers, MS, CRC, LPC, CLCP
>>> Vocational Consultant/Life Care Planner
>>>
>>> Vocational Diagnostics, Inc.
>>> P.O. Box 748
>>> Sun Prairie, WI 53590
>>> (608) 846-9530 (P)
>>> (888) 667-9860 (F)
>>>
michelea@vocationaldiagnostics.com
>>>
mjalbers@charter.net
>>>
www.vocationaldiagnostics.com
>>> -------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------
>>> Original Message:
>>> Sent: 02-19-2013 09:50
>>> From: George Cyphers
>>> Subject: Who is the Ethics Police - the Life Care Planner Gate Keeper
>>>
>>> The phrase "ethics police" is a belittling and demeaning phrase applied to>
>> ethics committees of professional organizations (often volunteers) who are>
>> charged by certifying bodfies to evaluate assertions of violations of the
>>> organizations' codes of ethics. The codes themselves are rigorously
>>> developed by bodies of the represented professionals, again through the
>>> generosity of many volunteered hours and exhaustive research.
>>>
>>> Some of us do, however, make presentations on these codes of ethics under>
>> the banner of what is understood to be Continuing Professional Education >
>> (CPE). These presentations are presentedcertifying bodies for prior review
>>> to affirm that their content is congruent with their respective code(s) of>
>> ethics and are worthy of being approved for continuing education credit used
>>> by their certificands to maintain the currency of their credentials.
>>>
>>> A cursory view of the first page of the posted powerpoint referred to
>>> suggests that the presenters are highly respected practitioners of the
> craft
>>> of Life Care Planning holding certifications from the very body that has
>>> been sugested to be the arbitor of the code of ethics for Certified Life
>>> Care Planners. Perhaps an e-mail to ICHCC or IALCP would be in order to
>>> determine if either or both of these bodies approved that PowerPoint
>>> presentation for continuing educational purposes.
>>>
>>> There is a wonderful text prepared by CRCC about its Code of Ethics that
>>> includes examples of breaches of the Code and decisions that were made by
>>> the adjudicating Ethics Committee of that national certifying entity.
>>> Perhaps other certifying bodies have similar guiding publications.
>>> -------------------------------------------
>>> George Cyphers
>>> Rehabilitation Counselor
>>>
george@gwcyphers.com
>>> Reminderville, OH United States
>>> -------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------
>>> Original Message:
>>> Sent: 02-18-2013 16:36
>>> From: Lois Hawkins
>>> Subject: Who is the Ethics Police - the Life Care Planner Gate Keeper
>>>
>>> In discussion with other professional Life Care Planners the question was
>>> raised "Please advise as to WHO is the ultimate Authority in determining
> and
>>> publishing on the web 'Case Examples Demonstrating Potential Breaches And
>>> Ethical Violations.'
>>>
>>> It is my understanding that the Governing body "International Commission on
>>> Health Care Certification" determines any ethical violation and then
> handles
>>> any complaint in a very discrete and professional manner and does not
>>> publish it's findings - (For or against).
>>> Furthermore, it is not the policy of IARP to publish any 'Case Examples
>>> Demonstrating Potential Breaches And Ethical Violations.'
>>>
>>> Then why and who gives one person not associated with ICHCC the authority
> to
>>> determine what is or not Ethical Violations and then publish on the WEB
> what
>>> he/she has determined unethical as a marketing tool and to attack Nurses.
>>
>>> The use of Nursing Diagnoses IS used in determining a plan of care in
>>> clinical and in the developing a Life Care Plan - including the need for
>>> hospitalization and treatment - Maybe more information should be available>
>> as part of the IALCP Symposiums on this topic.
>>>
>>> Furthermore, to publish on the web "examples" shows complete and total
>>> unethical and unprofessional behavior in every aspect. The fabrication of
>>> facts and disrespect to other professionals by this person and associated
>>> company is appalling.
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------
>>> Lois Hawkins, R.N., CLCP.
>>> Hawkins Forensic Consulting
>>> 2266 South Dobson, Rd., Suite 200
>>> Mesa, AZ 85202
>>> Office: 480 306-6389
>>> Fax: 480 393-4623
>>>
L.Hawkins@HawkinsForensics.com
>>>
>>>
http://www.Forensic-Life-Care-Planning.com/
>>> -------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>
>