Discussion: View Thread

  • 1.  TSA

    Posted 07-13-2022 13:39
    I would like to get some thoughts on the following.  I have seen frequently by opposing experts that when performing a TSA, they not only adjust the profile with the doctor's restrictions, but they then adjust the profile based on what was not restricted by the doctor.  For example, if their occupation required reaching occasionally, but since it is a sedentary job, the expert changed the profile for constantly, would that be appropriate?  Just need some thoughts on changing a profile in the TSA outside of doctors restrictions.

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    Gerri Pennachio
    Vocational Expert/Certified Life Care Planner
    Gerrip8738@aol.com
    Lakeland, FL United States
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  • 2.  RE: TSA

    Posted 07-13-2022 14:39

    GP: This situation comes up occasionally. Here is what I do to critique matters like this and remain professional and objective. This occurs with TSA, JA's or LMS using various methods to modify or adjust outside the norms.

     

    1. Review the evaluees entire work history for accurate job titles. Review education and other possible credentials that could support skills transfer.
    2. Compare the DOT demands to the Job Analysis or LMS materials presented. Check each demand listed and critique the difference of opinion(s).  Do skills transfer as assumed or not?  Also, did they use the correct DOT #?
    3. Make sure you see why the other Voc chose to do this modification. Are they simply manipulating data to satisfy a "customer"?
    4. If your review is of a Job Analysis or LMS only, do they match demand characteristics? Did you only see a TSA or JA and LMS?
    5. Did the other voc. list the medical source of restrictions or capacities? Is it clear where the data came from? A Dr., PT/OT or out of the sky somewhere?
    6. Profile changes can be appropriate if the source is credible and the voc. links the abilities to an expert in records or if a LMS can support this modification or "adjustment".
    7. Some sedentary occupations can be "constant" on reaching. That is why combining source data from LMS and DOT review is an important foundation.
    8. Last, what is the methodology for the TSA? Is it "generally accepted"?  You can quote from Rehab Handbook or VRAM , computer software program, or a published source to confirm or deny the accuracy or not.
    9. I assume you have had a history of direct job placement. You have a real-world understanding of demands and duties including how repetitive this job goal is. You may end of stating something like:  "Based on my extensive job placement experience for __X years, the frequency is or is not consistent with the actual occupational demands. My opinion is further supported by significant differences of published professional sources relied on by me and the vocational expert community."

     

     

    JOHN F. BERG

    Vocational Consulting Inc.

    Seattle, WA

     

     






  • 3.  RE: TSA

    Posted 07-13-2022 16:33
    I have read several times, but am not sure I understand the question, Gerri.

    ------------------------------
    Scott T. Stipe, MA, CRC, CDMS, IPEC, D/ABVE
    Certified Rehabilitation Counselor
    Board Certified Vocational Expert
    Scott Stipe & Associates, Inc.
    DBA Career Directions Northwest
    4110 SE Hawthorne Blvd
    #188
    Portland, Oregon, 97214
    (503)234-4484
    (503)234-4126 fax
    email: sstipe@careerdirectionsnw.com
    website: www.careerdirectionsnw.com
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: TSA

    Posted 07-13-2022 16:38
    Scott, I know I was not real clear.  I have seen experts who change the profile before they do the TSA so they can find more occupations.  They change the profile more than just the restrictions outlined by the doctor. Most experts I know only change the profile to reflect the restrictions outlined by the doctor and leave the rest of the profile alone per the requirements of their past work history.  Hopefully that is a bit clearer.

    Gerri





  • 5.  RE: TSA

    Posted 07-14-2022 00:13

    When reviewing a TSA...these are the following changes that can be made with clinical judgement: traits that can be adjusted1.) testing results,2.) your job analysis of the occupation, 3.) [which physician/ Therapist to choose as credible – MD/DO/DC/DPT/DOT; 4.) defense/plaintiff [typically defense is not allowed to evaluate evaluee – or the other side does not test or consider all worker traits], 5.) previous injuries impacting worker traits as opposed to most current injury,6.) FCE results, 7.) not understanding the correct definition of strength levels – especially sedentary and light 8.) demonstrated work history does not match doctor/ therapist conclusions 9.)  occupations do not exist in significant numbers  

     

     

     

    Ronald T. Smolarski, M.A.

    Certified Life Care Planner

    Forensic Economist

    Certified Functional Capacity  Evaluator

    Vocational Expert

     

    ron@beaconrehab.com

    www.beaconrehab.com

    (800) 821-8463

    Ann Arbor Michigan, USA

     

     

     

     sig

     

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  • 6.  RE: TSA

    Posted 07-15-2022 21:43
    I appreciate several takeaways from your question here, Gerri.  Following on Ron S's reply, I concur that by mere acceptance of N=1, tools, such as TSA instruments, not only could, but probably should be adapted to fit "my case at hand."   The TSA tool may/not encompass the unique characteristics or worker traits of the Evaluee, and hence adapting it, by way of objective measurement, factual history, and clinical judgment is indeed not only justified but results in an accurate assessment for THIS case.   The crucial point is for the Evaluator to "say so" in the report and provide a comprehensive explanation of what and why changes were made to otherwise normative values otherwise assigned by way of the research combined behind the tool. Not saying so, while stating to rely upon a tool, wrongly implies a foundation that does not exist as it was created.  It is here that I find practitioners err by way of omission.  The error, imo, is not about adapting the tool, which I think is the basis of your concern.   

    Ron provides various factors to consider when making such an adjustment, most to which I concur.  However, he names among these the "physician/therapist to choose as credible" among these.  I am not certain if he meant to say that, or how that would fit into this discussion.   The point is that it is not for a vocational evaluator to choose which medical opinion is credible, or even who is more or less so.  That is not within the Scope of our practice, and our expert opinions cannot apply to that topic as far as I am aware.  This is not to say that one who does FCE's (as Ron does) cannot disagree with a medical opinion that is different from their own findings.  In such a case, though, the expert must pass voir dire and qualify a having a "functional opinion" separate from or additional to a vocational one.  Even in such a scenario, however, the involved practitioner does not get to offer an opinion in "choosing who is credible."

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    Bob Paré, MS, CRC, LRC, CDMS, FVE, ABVE/D
    rpare@consultativerehab.com
    Mt. Laurel, NJ. Tel: 609-531-2529
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  • 7.  RE: TSA

    Posted 07-16-2022 00:19
    One may adjust the TSA  because the physician/ therapist on your side wants this change...how ever it doesn't mean it's true.  It's a difficult pill to swallow...but you must follow the rules and make the change.

    Sent from my iPhone





  • 8.  RE: TSA

    Posted 07-14-2022 12:46
    Ah, I see.
    But sometimes the profile going in from an individual's Past Relevant Work can at times artificially limit the reality/universe as to future work he/she/they could do/could have done. Let's say Joe's past occupations only required occasional whatever: bending, depth perception, climbing. Maybe the PRW only required an F dexterity or a V verbal or G of below average level 4. But let's say you know that there is no bending or climbing restriction. Let's also say that you have testing which documents a higher-level V or F than that which was required to be demonstrated in PRW. So, then you might make certain adjustments to the profile, since leaving it alone would not really be logical in some cases. If Joe had only done an SVP 2 occupation with a G of 4 and you have a WAIS with a FSIQ of 120, why pretend he is just a 4 when he ain't. 


    But with Strength or with Physical Demands, it is more complex. If, for example the only MD restriction is on bending, to simply crank up the profile to allow for full on Very Heavy, or to max out all other PD (except bending) to constant is iffy. There may or may not be basis for such adjustments. 

    Generally, the 100% defense or plaintiff -oriented VE does no apparent TSS at all. If they did, they could not engineer desired cream puff outcomes. You could no longer read their reports in your mind before you get them. Or that type of "expert" only vague/indecipherable gobbledygook TSA "method". I have read and re-read, we all probably have, such vacuous junk countless times from clowns amongst us. We are all a bit dumber for having listened to such drivel (to quote Billy Madison). So, none of this stuff matters to that type of clown "expert". But clowns are intensely vulnerable. You can fool a layperson and some opposing dimwit VEs, as well as attorneys or judges who are not very smart, lazy, distracted or just don't care.

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    Scott T. Stipe, MA, CRC, CDMS, IPEC, D/ABVE
    Certified Rehabilitation Counselor
    Board Certified Vocational Expert
    Scott Stipe & Associates, Inc.
    DBA Career Directions Northwest
    4110 SE Hawthorne Blvd
    #188
    Portland, Oregon, 97214
    (503)234-4484
    (503)234-4126 fax
    email: sstipe@careerdirectionsnw.com
    website: www.careerdirectionsnw.com
    ------------------------------