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  • 1.  Stenographer Present at Online Vocational Evaluation

    Posted 8 days ago

    I am looking for input from others on having a stenographer present at an online vocational evaluation. She was hired by opposing counsel. I contacted the defense attorney that contracted my services and the evaluation was cancelled for the time being.  I was given no prior notice, which would be a minimum expectation, I would think, with consent also being required. I don't agree to being ambushed.  

    What are your thoughts on allowing a stenographer to transcribe a vocational evaluation?  What preliminary steps would/do you take?  What follow-up expectations do you require?  What are the possible negative outcomes for a vocational expert for allowing this type of recording of the vocational interview? 

    The venue is Philadelphia County Court of Common Pleas. 



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    Connie L. Standhart, MS, CRC, ABVE/F
    Peak Solutions Vocational Services
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  • 2.  RE: Stenographer Present at Online Vocational Evaluation

    Posted 8 days ago
    If the defense attorney you are working is okay with the exam being transcribed, he/she should either be present too, or maybe that you be able to record it also. They obviously want to be able to show it in court.

    June Hagen, Ph.D., C.D.M.S., A.B.V.E.
    Vocational Expert
    (310) 399-3754








  • 3.  RE: Stenographer Present at Online Vocational Evaluation

    Posted 8 days ago

    This is actually a very similar "war story" that Maria Babinetz and I have presented at our War Stories series.   We have different takes on it due to working in different jurisdictions. You may need to work with your retaining attorney to see what the court will allow, etc.  For me, I was ambushed with a video camera once and then with a recorder. 

     

    The first time, it was  a rush case,  no time to reschedule. I was inclined to decline, but let the attorneys fight it out.  Finally, after discussions between attorneys, with the testing companies, and review of the codes of ethics for CRCC and ABVE, we decided on  an agreed order that the tape (video) would be sealed at the court, no copies, and returned to me at the end of the case.  The travesty was that the poor evaluee, who had chronic pain, had to wait 2 hours to work it all out and start her evaluation. At that point, I decided I would never agree to it again.

     

    Ten years later, I had an evaluation at the same attorney's office. He said he would not videotape  that time, but would record me. I declined and let him and defense counsel fight it out. I went to a nearby restaurant and was "on call". 

     

    Finally, he agreed for me to meet with the evaluee, without recording, but did want to record that he was present with me and had requested it to be recorded.  (I do not know how that was helpful). 

     

    If you agree, would suggest you have your own stenographer, and not allow the testing to be transcribed. 

     

    You can go to the testing company websites (PAR, Pearson, etc.) and each has language now on their websites about recording the testing sessions.  You can give that to defense counsel to help opposing counsel and court understand why this is not possible as far as recording/transcribing the testing sessions.

     

    Best,

     

    Michelle McBroom Weiss, MA, CRC, CCM, NCC, MSCC, ABVE/D, IPEC

    Vocational Consultant

    5543 Edmondson Pike, Suite 128

    Nashville, TN 37211

    mcbroomweiss@mcbroomweiss.com

    (P) 615-834-0186

    (C) 615-308-6395

     

    Future out of Office:

     

    March 11-15 (ABVE Conference)

     






  • 4.  RE: Stenographer Present at Online Vocational Evaluation

    Posted 8 days ago
    I would consult with your referring attorney first. They are responsible for the ultimate decision to allow or file a motion to deny. I would add that this is the first time ever a stenographer was performing this in a clinical interview. It is not standard practice. Review the CRCC code section and quote if relevant. Would a psychologist or psychiatrist allow this? If testing is performed, you could argue it is a violation of use based on the instruments used. A third party changes the relationship. If a court approves, get a stipulation of sharing the document to insure accuracy without redactions. Audio recordings are done through not often. If that was allowed ,an exact copy is needed.
    I agree, you were blindsided. Others will certainly chip in other opt.

    John F. Berg
    Vocational Consulting Inc.
    Seattle
    206-852-6559

    Sent from my iPhone




  • 5.  RE: Stenographer Present at Online Vocational Evaluation

    Posted 8 days ago

    This is how I handle it.  The referral source needs to approve.  If the interview is transcribed, I, and my referral source, need a copy of the transcription if it is to be introduced for any reason in the case -- written materials or court.   The stenographer cannot be present in the testing. This is how I have handled this issue as well as any client that wants to use a recorder during our interview.  FYI - the transcription has never been presented in court. Seems like a waste of money. I have never had any push back when I say no to the stenographer (or anyone else) being present for the testing.



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    Jan Lowe, MS
    CRC & Diplomate, ABVE
    Minneapolis, MN USA
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  • 6.  RE: Stenographer Present at Online Vocational Evaluation

    Posted 8 days ago

    Jan,

     

    Other than the one delightful attorney previously mentioned, in jest,  I also have never had anyone else who did not understand the testing being private.  I can only think of one other occasion and in that occasion,  it was determined that testing would not be conducted.   There were reasons why I was agreeable to not doing testing.   

     

    Clinical judgement and working within our codes of ethics, and testing company policies is key.   

     

    Best,

     

    Michelle McBroom Weiss, MA, CRC, CCM, NCC, MSCC, ABVE/D, IPEC

    Vocational Consultant

    5543 Edmondson Pike, Suite 128

    Nashville, TN 37211

    mcbroomweiss@mcbroomweiss.com

    (P) 615-834-0186

    (C) 615-308-6395

     

    Future out of Office:

     

    March 11-15 (ABVE Conference)

     






  • 7.  RE: Stenographer Present at Online Vocational Evaluation

    Posted 8 days ago

    Connie and colleagues,

    This is an excellent question, and I agree with your underlying concern. Being surprised by a third-party stenographer at the start of a vocational evaluation is not an acceptable way to proceed, particularly in a forensic context, where the evaluation's conditions should be clearly defined in advance.

    Practicing regularly in Pennsylvania (including matters venued in Philadelphia County), my approach has been:

    If any party intends to have a court reporter/stenographer present for a vocational evaluation, it should be raised in advance and coordinated through counsel. At a minimum, this should occur with appropriate notice and clear agreement on the conditions.

    If transcription is requested, the parties should clarify in advance what is and is not included, to avoid ambiguity about the process or the record being created.

    If a court reporter is present, I should be provided with a copy of the transcript as soon as practicable after the evaluation. I also reserve the right to review it for accuracy and, if needed, submit corrections/clarifications in writing (errata-style).

    While a vocational evaluation is not a deposition, a transcript can later be treated like sworn testimony in practice. Ensuring an accurate record protects all parties and reduces the risk of unnecessary disputes.

    If a transcript is created, expectations should be set in advance regarding distribution, use, and whether any restrictions apply.

    I am not opposed to transparency, but I do not agree to being "ambushed." If stenography is requested, it should be handled as a procedural issue between counsel, with conditions established in advance so the evaluation can proceed in an orderly, fair, and defensible manner.

    Respectfully,
    Maria A. Babinetz
    President, American Board of Vocational Experts (ABVE)



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    Maria Babinetz
    Vocational Rehabilitation Expert
    maria.babinetz@signaturerehab.com
    Lansdale, PA United States
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  • 8.  RE: Stenographer Present at Online Vocational Evaluation

    Posted 7 days ago

    Thank you all for your input.  I am consulting with the contracting attorney.  While she/they will have to agree to it, I feel that I must also consent. I was not aware that this practice is a common occurrence in PA and I thank you for that info, Maria.  Apparently, they even do this for IMEs!  The contracting atty was informed the same.  Since it is, I am more cautious as they certainly should have been brought up well in advance of this evaluation, scheduled over two months ago. The ambush was blatantly unacceptable, and I will make it known. I am still curious on how it may be used in PA courts.  Could this have a negative effect on me and my practice?

    Michelle, I recall that war story.  I was there. I can't remember what city it was in...I've attended several war story segments and really enjoy them. And as you and others have said, I certainly will not allow anyone present for any testing. I don't see anyone having a problem with that.


    To clarify, it is not being recorded, just transcribed by the stenographer.  I like the idea of having my own stenographer, and I will most certainly demand a copy of their transcription ASAP and the opportunity to make corrections.


    What I don't like about it purely being a transcription is that intonations are missed.  I am a human and relate to evaluees as I do all other humans, with small talk, smiles, laughter and sometimes sarcasm. (I am, after all, a counselor, and want all to feel at ease). All those would be missed in a pure transcription, as we have all seen in text messaging gone awry.  I almost prefer it to be a video recording! 

    Thank you all again. This is very helpful!



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    Connie L. Standhart, MS, CRC, ABVE/F
    Peak Solutions Vocational Services
    ------------------------------