Discussion: View Thread

Scott I saw your post and  thought it was interested but still recovering from overworking prior to the conference, the conference and a hectic week this week!    I intended to respond just been offline trying to recover!

I see experts  who use a TSA or reference one but suspect they did not do one.  When asked they speak in generalities or cannot produce a computer generated or hand written VDARE TSA.   I read an opposing expert deposition recently where  the opposing expert recently mentioned transferable skills in the report but confirmed he or she did not do an TSA, they just know because they have been an expert x number of years.   The reality in many cases is that they are cutting costs.  Most reports I see that have no TSA I suspect are because they are charging an incredibly low flat rate for their  evaluation and report. I suspect they cut corners for that reason.  

Not using generally accepted methodology has all kinds of implications.  Will that individual sustain a motion in limine?

Hearing Dr. Tim Field at Forensic 101 and Forensic 201 he mentioned several times we should be about excellent work product. I do not think this is excellent work. 

I also see in reports  where they aren't interested in work.  Again,  we are to consider work capacity, whether they choose to return to work or not. 

I see this lack of method  in all kinds of cases, WC and liability.    It is what I call a haphazard approach to a vocational opinion.   Definitely not excellent work.

Thanks for starting the conversation!

Best regards,

Michelle McBroom Weiss, MA, CRC, CCM, NCC, MSCC, ABVE/D, IPEC

5543 Edmondson Pike, Suite 128

Nashville, TN 37211

mcbroomweiss@mcbroomweiss.com

(P) 615-834-0186

(F) 615-831-5274

(C) 615-308-6395

Don't you agree that in some cases, particularly Work Comp, where individuals have worked in one or two occupations for the duration of their work history, such as truck driving and construction labor, that you really don't need to do a formal TSA.  I feel like after all these years, I don't need a computer to tell me what their skills are and if they transfer to other occupations within their physical capacities.  I do feel that good writing is important to describe the analysis and your conclusions, but don't think it is necessary to produce a computer generated TSA or a handwritten VDARE.  In more complex cases with a more varied work history, better educational achievement, etc., I do believe the analysis should include these methods.

"Boise Barb"

Scott I saw your post and  thought it was interested but still recovering from overworking prior to the conference, the conference and a hectic week this week!    I intended to respond just been offline trying to recover!

I see experts  who use a TSA or reference one but suspect they did not do one.  When asked they speak in generalities or cannot produce a computer generated or hand written VDARE TSA.   I read an opposing expert deposition recently where  the opposing expert recently mentioned transferable skills in the report but confirmed he or she did not do an TSA, they just know because they have been an expert x number of years.   The reality in many cases is that they are cutting costs.  Most reports I see that have no TSA I suspect are because they are charging an incredibly low flat rate for their  evaluation and report. I suspect they cut corners for that reason.  

Not using generally accepted methodology has all kinds of implications.  Will that individual sustain a motion in limine?

Hearing Dr. Tim Field at Forensic 101 and Forensic 201 he mentioned several times we should be about excellent work product. I do not think this is excellent work. 

I also see in reports  where they aren't interested in work.  Again,  we are to consider work capacity, whether they choose to return to work or not. 

I see this lack of method  in all kinds of cases, WC and liability.    It is what I call a haphazard approach to a vocational opinion.   Definitely not excellent work.

Thanks for starting the conversation!

Best regards,

Michelle McBroom Weiss, MA, CRC, CCM, NCC, MSCC, ABVE/D, IPEC

5543 Edmondson Pike, Suite 128

Nashville, TN 37211

mcbroomweiss@mcbroomweiss.com

(P) 615-834-0186

(F) 615-831-5274

(C) 615-308-6395

For completeness I do the TSA. I think however if you  don't do it, you need  to explain.  The question is if you followed generally accepted methodology, peer reviewed methodology  and if you altered why.  We all have times where clinical judgement is used,  for example, to test or not to test etc. 

I suspect you are much more thorough than the 1-3 page reports with no detail that I see that has one sentence about transferable skills.

I am not sure if you remember Dr. Gordon Doss, who is now deceased.  He told me in my early days as I was lugging the huge 2 volume DOT books to in-person SSA hearings that one day I wouldn't need those I would just know how jobs were done. That was back when we didn't have to cite DOT #s, and would just say the person was a cashier 2 light unskilled (without even the SVP level)!   I still classify my jobs,  old school.

I often may know the answer to the question, I just want the foundation to back me up.  It is just my comfort level as I never want to be excluded. 

Michelle McBroom Weiss, MA, CRC, CCM, NCC, MSCC, ABVE/D, IPEC

5543 Edmondson Pike, Suite 128

Nashville, TN 37211

mcbroomweiss@mcbroomweiss.com

(P) 615-834-0186

(F) 615-831-5274

(C) 615-308-6395

Don't you agree that in some cases, particularly Work Comp, where individuals have worked in one or two occupations for the duration of their work history, such as truck driving and construction labor, that you really don't need to do a formal TSA.  I feel like after all these years, I don't need a computer to tell me what their skills are and if they transfer to other occupations within their physical capacities.  I do feel that good writing is important to describe the analysis and your conclusions, but don't think it is necessary to produce a computer generated TSA or a handwritten VDARE.  In more complex cases with a more varied work history, better educational achievement, etc., I do believe the analysis should include these methods.

"Boise Barb"

Scott I saw your post and  thought it was interested but still recovering from overworking prior to the conference, the conference and a hectic week this week!    I intended to respond just been offline trying to recover!

I see experts  who use a TSA or reference one but suspect they did not do one.  When asked they speak in generalities or cannot produce a computer generated or hand written VDARE TSA.   I read an opposing expert deposition recently where  the opposing expert recently mentioned transferable skills in the report but confirmed he or she did not do an TSA, they just know because they have been an expert x number of years.   The reality in many cases is that they are cutting costs.  Most reports I see that have no TSA I suspect are because they are charging an incredibly low flat rate for their  evaluation and report. I suspect they cut corners for that reason.  

Not using generally accepted methodology has all kinds of implications.  Will that individual sustain a motion in limine?

Hearing Dr. Tim Field at Forensic 101 and Forensic 201 he mentioned several times we should be about excellent work product. I do not think this is excellent work. 

I also see in reports  where they aren't interested in work.  Again,  we are to consider work capacity, whether they choose to return to work or not. 

I see this lack of method  in all kinds of cases, WC and liability.    It is what I call a haphazard approach to a vocational opinion.   Definitely not excellent work.

Thanks for starting the conversation!

Best regards,

Michelle McBroom Weiss, MA, CRC, CCM, NCC, MSCC, ABVE/D, IPEC

5543 Edmondson Pike, Suite 128

Nashville, TN 37211

mcbroomweiss@mcbroomweiss.com

(P) 615-834-0186

(F) 615-831-5274

(C) 615-308-6395

For completeness I do the TSA. I think however if you  don't do it, you need  to explain.  The question is if you followed generally accepted methodology, peer reviewed methodology  and if you altered why.  We all have times where clinical judgement is used,  for example, to test or not to test etc. 

I suspect you are much more thorough than the 1-3 page reports with no detail that I see that has one sentence about transferable skills.

I am not sure if you remember Dr. Gordon Doss, who is now deceased.  He told me in my early days as I was lugging the huge 2 volume DOT books to in-person SSA hearings that one day I wouldn't need those I would just know how jobs were done. That was back when we didn't have to cite DOT #s, and would just say the person was a cashier 2 light unskilled (without even the SVP level)!   I still classify my jobs,  old school.

I often may know the answer to the question, I just want the foundation to back me up.  It is just my comfort level as I never want to be excluded. 

Michelle McBroom Weiss, MA, CRC, CCM, NCC, MSCC, ABVE/D, IPEC

5543 Edmondson Pike, Suite 128

Nashville, TN 37211

mcbroomweiss@mcbroomweiss.com

(P) 615-834-0186

(F) 615-831-5274

(C) 615-308-6395

Don't you agree that in some cases, particularly Work Comp, where individuals have worked in one or two occupations for the duration of their work history, such as truck driving and construction labor, that you really don't need to do a formal TSA.  I feel like after all these years, I don't need a computer to tell me what their skills are and if they transfer to other occupations within their physical capacities.  I do feel that good writing is important to describe the analysis and your conclusions, but don't think it is necessary to produce a computer generated TSA or a handwritten VDARE.  In more complex cases with a more varied work history, better educational achievement, etc., I do believe the analysis should include these methods.

"Boise Barb"

Scott I saw your post and  thought it was interested but still recovering from overworking prior to the conference, the conference and a hectic week this week!    I intended to respond just been offline trying to recover!

I see experts  who use a TSA or reference one but suspect they did not do one.  When asked they speak in generalities or cannot produce a computer generated or hand written VDARE TSA.   I read an opposing expert deposition recently where  the opposing expert recently mentioned transferable skills in the report but confirmed he or she did not do an TSA, they just know because they have been an expert x number of years.   The reality in many cases is that they are cutting costs.  Most reports I see that have no TSA I suspect are because they are charging an incredibly low flat rate for their  evaluation and report. I suspect they cut corners for that reason.  

Not using generally accepted methodology has all kinds of implications.  Will that individual sustain a motion in limine?

Hearing Dr. Tim Field at Forensic 101 and Forensic 201 he mentioned several times we should be about excellent work product. I do not think this is excellent work. 

I also see in reports  where they aren't interested in work.  Again,  we are to consider work capacity, whether they choose to return to work or not. 

I see this lack of method  in all kinds of cases, WC and liability.    It is what I call a haphazard approach to a vocational opinion.   Definitely not excellent work.

Thanks for starting the conversation!

Best regards,

Michelle McBroom Weiss, MA, CRC, CCM, NCC, MSCC, ABVE/D, IPEC

5543 Edmondson Pike, Suite 128

Nashville, TN 37211

mcbroomweiss@mcbroomweiss.com

(P) 615-834-0186

(F) 615-831-5274

(C) 615-308-6395

For completeness I do the TSA. I think however if you  don't do it, you need  to explain.  The question is if you followed generally accepted methodology, peer reviewed methodology  and if you altered why.  We all have times where clinical judgement is used,  for example, to test or not to test etc. 

I suspect you are much more thorough than the 1-3 page reports with no detail that I see that has one sentence about transferable skills.

I am not sure if you remember Dr. Gordon Doss, who is now deceased.  He told me in my early days as I was lugging the huge 2 volume DOT books to in-person SSA hearings that one day I wouldn't need those I would just know how jobs were done. That was back when we didn't have to cite DOT #s, and would just say the person was a cashier 2 light unskilled (without even the SVP level)!   I still classify my jobs,  old school.

I often may know the answer to the question, I just want the foundation to back me up.  It is just my comfort level as I never want to be excluded. 

Michelle McBroom Weiss, MA, CRC, CCM, NCC, MSCC, ABVE/D, IPEC

5543 Edmondson Pike, Suite 128

Nashville, TN 37211

mcbroomweiss@mcbroomweiss.com

(P) 615-834-0186

(F) 615-831-5274

(C) 615-308-6395

Don't you agree that in some cases, particularly Work Comp, where individuals have worked in one or two occupations for the duration of their work history, such as truck driving and construction labor, that you really don't need to do a formal TSA.  I feel like after all these years, I don't need a computer to tell me what their skills are and if they transfer to other occupations within their physical capacities.  I do feel that good writing is important to describe the analysis and your conclusions, but don't think it is necessary to produce a computer generated TSA or a handwritten VDARE.  In more complex cases with a more varied work history, better educational achievement, etc., I do believe the analysis should include these methods.

"Boise Barb"

Scott I saw your post and  thought it was interested but still recovering from overworking prior to the conference, the conference and a hectic week this week!    I intended to respond just been offline trying to recover!

I see experts  who use a TSA or reference one but suspect they did not do one.  When asked they speak in generalities or cannot produce a computer generated or hand written VDARE TSA.   I read an opposing expert deposition recently where  the opposing expert recently mentioned transferable skills in the report but confirmed he or she did not do an TSA, they just know because they have been an expert x number of years.   The reality in many cases is that they are cutting costs.  Most reports I see that have no TSA I suspect are because they are charging an incredibly low flat rate for their  evaluation and report. I suspect they cut corners for that reason.  

Not using generally accepted methodology has all kinds of implications.  Will that individual sustain a motion in limine?

Hearing Dr. Tim Field at Forensic 101 and Forensic 201 he mentioned several times we should be about excellent work product. I do not think this is excellent work. 

I also see in reports  where they aren't interested in work.  Again,  we are to consider work capacity, whether they choose to return to work or not. 

I see this lack of method  in all kinds of cases, WC and liability.    It is what I call a haphazard approach to a vocational opinion.   Definitely not excellent work.

Thanks for starting the conversation!

Best regards,

Michelle McBroom Weiss, MA, CRC, CCM, NCC, MSCC, ABVE/D, IPEC

5543 Edmondson Pike, Suite 128

Nashville, TN 37211

mcbroomweiss@mcbroomweiss.com

(P) 615-834-0186

(F) 615-831-5274

(C) 615-308-6395

Don't you agree that in some cases, particularly Work Comp, where individuals have worked in one or two occupations for the duration of their work history, such as truck driving and construction labor, that you really don't need to do a formal TSA.  I feel like after all these years, I don't need a computer to tell me what their skills are and if they transfer to other occupations within their physical capacities.  I do feel that good writing is important to describe the analysis and your conclusions, but don't think it is necessary to produce a computer generated TSA or a handwritten VDARE.  In more complex cases with a more varied work history, better educational achievement, etc., I do believe the analysis should include these methods.

"Boise Barb"

Scott I saw your post and  thought it was interested but still recovering from overworking prior to the conference, the conference and a hectic week this week!    I intended to respond just been offline trying to recover!

I see experts  who use a TSA or reference one but suspect they did not do one.  When asked they speak in generalities or cannot produce a computer generated or hand written VDARE TSA.   I read an opposing expert deposition recently where  the opposing expert recently mentioned transferable skills in the report but confirmed he or she did not do an TSA, they just know because they have been an expert x number of years.   The reality in many cases is that they are cutting costs.  Most reports I see that have no TSA I suspect are because they are charging an incredibly low flat rate for their  evaluation and report. I suspect they cut corners for that reason.  

Not using generally accepted methodology has all kinds of implications.  Will that individual sustain a motion in limine?

Hearing Dr. Tim Field at Forensic 101 and Forensic 201 he mentioned several times we should be about excellent work product. I do not think this is excellent work. 

I also see in reports  where they aren't interested in work.  Again,  we are to consider work capacity, whether they choose to return to work or not. 

I see this lack of method  in all kinds of cases, WC and liability.    It is what I call a haphazard approach to a vocational opinion.   Definitely not excellent work.

Thanks for starting the conversation!

Best regards,

Michelle McBroom Weiss, MA, CRC, CCM, NCC, MSCC, ABVE/D, IPEC

5543 Edmondson Pike, Suite 128

Nashville, TN 37211

mcbroomweiss@mcbroomweiss.com

(P) 615-834-0186

(F) 615-831-5274

(C) 615-308-6395

Hello Barb,

The example of a truck driver and a construction worker not needing a transferable skills analysis, because of many years of working with these occupations sounds like your theory of a  vocational  analysis.

What does one consider when reviewing worker traits, that may impact a person's ability to work at a competitive and sustained rate? 

Does pain impact a worker's ability to function at a competitive and sustained rate?

What traits are impacted by pain?

What traits are impacted by a workers inability to work at a full range of motion?

Should a rehabilitation counselor/ vocational evaluator consider a workers; education development/ aptitudes/ physical capacities/&  environmental tolerances?  If yes, how does one consider these thousands of bits of information?

If a worker was under employed [had higher education development and aptitudes] then his truck driving or construction occupation worker trait demands – should that be considered – and how would one know if these high levels competency levels exist without testing these traits?  How does good writing work better than a transferable skills analysis using objective measures?

If say a roofer [Joe]on the job was poor in math and always had his best buddy [Billy] do the measuring and he did more of the nail gun work – how would you know the deficit without testing?...and then consider the transferable skills by good writing?

What does a formal TSA or transferable skills analysis force a rehab counselor/ vocational evaluator to do before the actual transferable skills?  Does one need objective data for each trait that is analyzed?  How does one analyze occupations and worker's DOT work history, injury, trait competencies, through good writing.

Would access to employment be important vocational information?  How can a rehab counselor/ vocational evaluator make that determination using thousands of bits of information by good writing?

The question that just rings very loud to me is; subjective vocational evaluation or objective vocational evaluation, which one would you want to be used on your self if injured?...if you were a truck driver or construction worker.    

Ronald T. Smolarski, M.A.

Certified Life Care Planner

Forensic Economist

Certified Functional Capacity  Evaluator

Vocational Expert

ron@beaconrehab.com

www.beaconrehab.com

(800) 821-8463

Ann Arbor Michigan, USA

DISCLAIMER: This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Additionally, this communication and/or attached files may contain protected health information, which is governed by HIPAA regulations. If this information is intended to be forwarded or shared, you and your entity are responsible to assure HIPAA regulation and guidelines are followed. If you are not the intended recipient any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.

Don't you agree that in some cases, particularly Work Comp, where individuals have worked in one or two occupations for the duration of their work history, such as truck driving and construction labor, that you really don't need to do a formal TSA.  I feel like after all these years, I don't need a computer to tell me what their skills are and if they transfer to other occupations within their physical capacities.  I do feel that good writing is important to describe the analysis and your conclusions, but don't think it is necessary to produce a computer generated TSA or a handwritten VDARE.  In more complex cases with a more varied work history, better educational achievement, etc., I do believe the analysis should include these methods.

"Boise Barb"

Scott I saw your post and  thought it was interested but still recovering from overworking prior to the conference, the conference and a hectic week this week!    I intended to respond just been offline trying to recover!

I see experts  who use a TSA or reference one but suspect they did not do one.  When asked they speak in generalities or cannot produce a computer generated or hand written VDARE TSA.   I read an opposing expert deposition recently where  the opposing expert recently mentioned transferable skills in the report but confirmed he or she did not do an TSA, they just know because they have been an expert x number of years.   The reality in many cases is that they are cutting costs.  Most reports I see that have no TSA I suspect are because they are charging an incredibly low flat rate for their  evaluation and report. I suspect they cut corners for that reason.  

Not using generally accepted methodology has all kinds of implications.  Will that individual sustain a motion in limine?

Hearing Dr. Tim Field at Forensic 101 and Forensic 201 he mentioned several times we should be about excellent work product. I do not think this is excellent work. 

I also see in reports  where they aren't interested in work.  Again,  we are to consider work capacity, whether they choose to return to work or not. 

I see this lack of method  in all kinds of cases, WC and liability.    It is what I call a haphazard approach to a vocational opinion.   Definitely not excellent work.

Thanks for starting the conversation!

Best regards,

Michelle McBroom Weiss, MA, CRC, CCM, NCC, MSCC, ABVE/D, IPEC

5543 Edmondson Pike, Suite 128

Nashville, TN 37211

mcbroomweiss@mcbroomweiss.com

(P) 615-834-0186

(F) 615-831-5274

(C) 615-308-6395

I never said nor implied that all of those variables were not important and should not be included.  Most of these factors are not measured with a computer, but rather with solid vocational testing, research, and analysis.  Good writing is extremely important in relaying this information to the recipient of the report, generally an attorney or lay vocational person.  I strongly believe that a report should be written for the recipients to well understand your interpretation and understanding of the vocational factors.  I see lots of reports with an overabundance of vocational and economic terminology that is difficult for the non-vocational recipient to understand or more importantly to transfer to the world of work.  This is also true of functional capacities evaluations which may go into great detail about things such as degrees of supination and pronation, degrees of range of motion, etc., but not well explain how these variables affect the evaluee's work abilities.  Not all, but many.  To me, the ability to write well and explain your foundation, analysis, conclusions and recommendations is extremely important and does not equate to a subjective vocational analysis.

"Boise Barb"

Hello Barb,

The example of a truck driver and a construction worker not needing a transferable skills analysis, because of many years of working with these occupations sounds like your theory of a  vocational  analysis.

What does one consider when reviewing worker traits, that may impact a person's ability to work at a competitive and sustained rate? 

Does pain impact a worker's ability to function at a competitive and sustained rate?

What traits are impacted by pain?

What traits are impacted by a workers inability to work at a full range of motion?

Should a rehabilitation counselor/ vocational evaluator consider a workers; education development/ aptitudes/ physical capacities/&  environmental tolerances?  If yes, how does one consider these thousands of bits of information?

If a worker was under employed [had higher education development and aptitudes] then his truck driving or construction occupation worker trait demands – should that be considered – and how would one know if these high levels competency levels exist without testing these traits?  How does good writing work better than a transferable skills analysis using objective measures?

If say a roofer [Joe]on the job was poor in math and always had his best buddy [Billy] do the measuring and he did more of the nail gun work – how would you know the deficit without testing?...and then consider the transferable skills by good writing?

What does a formal TSA or transferable skills analysis force a rehab counselor/ vocational evaluator to do before the actual transferable skills?  Does one need objective data for each trait that is analyzed?  How does one analyze occupations and worker's DOT work history, injury, trait competencies, through good writing.

Would access to employment be important vocational information?  How can a rehab counselor/ vocational evaluator make that determination using thousands of bits of information by good writing?

The question that just rings very loud to me is; subjective vocational evaluation or objective vocational evaluation, which one would you want to be used on your self if injured?...if you were a truck driver or construction worker.    

Ronald T. Smolarski, M.A.

Certified Life Care Planner

Forensic Economist

Certified Functional Capacity  Evaluator

Vocational Expert

ron@beaconrehab.com

www.beaconrehab.com

(800) 821-8463

Ann Arbor Michigan, USA

DISCLAIMER: This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Additionally, this communication and/or attached files may contain protected health information, which is governed by HIPAA regulations. If this information is intended to be forwarded or shared, you and your entity are responsible to assure HIPAA regulation and guidelines are followed. If you are not the intended recipient any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.

Don't you agree that in some cases, particularly Work Comp, where individuals have worked in one or two occupations for the duration of their work history, such as truck driving and construction labor, that you really don't need to do a formal TSA.  I feel like after all these years, I don't need a computer to tell me what their skills are and if they transfer to other occupations within their physical capacities.  I do feel that good writing is important to describe the analysis and your conclusions, but don't think it is necessary to produce a computer generated TSA or a handwritten VDARE.  In more complex cases with a more varied work history, better educational achievement, etc., I do believe the analysis should include these methods.

"Boise Barb"

Scott I saw your post and  thought it was interested but still recovering from overworking prior to the conference, the conference and a hectic week this week!    I intended to respond just been offline trying to recover!

I see experts  who use a TSA or reference one but suspect they did not do one.  When asked they speak in generalities or cannot produce a computer generated or hand written VDARE TSA.   I read an opposing expert deposition recently where  the opposing expert recently mentioned transferable skills in the report but confirmed he or she did not do an TSA, they just know because they have been an expert x number of years.   The reality in many cases is that they are cutting costs.  Most reports I see that have no TSA I suspect are because they are charging an incredibly low flat rate for their  evaluation and report. I suspect they cut corners for that reason.  

Not using generally accepted methodology has all kinds of implications.  Will that individual sustain a motion in limine?

Hearing Dr. Tim Field at Forensic 101 and Forensic 201 he mentioned several times we should be about excellent work product. I do not think this is excellent work. 

I also see in reports  where they aren't interested in work.  Again,  we are to consider work capacity, whether they choose to return to work or not. 

I see this lack of method  in all kinds of cases, WC and liability.    It is what I call a haphazard approach to a vocational opinion.   Definitely not excellent work.

Thanks for starting the conversation!

Best regards,

Michelle McBroom Weiss, MA, CRC, CCM, NCC, MSCC, ABVE/D, IPEC

5543 Edmondson Pike, Suite 128

Nashville, TN 37211

mcbroomweiss@mcbroomweiss.com

(P) 615-834-0186

(F) 615-831-5274

(C) 615-308-6395

How can you write a report without comparing your test findings to all the DOT numbers [in your geo area] and also including my questions indicated in my previous email without being subjective?

Ronald T. Smolarski, M.A.

Certified Life Care Planner

Forensic Economist

Certified Functional Capacity  Evaluator

Vocational Expert

ron@beaconrehab.com

www.beaconrehab.com

(800) 821-8463

Ann Arbor Michigan, USA

DISCLAIMER: This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Additionally, this communication and/or attached files may contain protected health information, which is governed by HIPAA regulations. If this information is intended to be forwarded or shared, you and your entity are responsible to assure HIPAA regulation and guidelines are followed. If you are not the intended recipient any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.

I never said nor implied that all of those variables were not important and should not be included.  Most of these factors are not measured with a computer, but rather with solid vocational testing, research, and analysis.  Good writing is extremely important in relaying this information to the recipient of the report, generally an attorney or lay vocational person.  I strongly believe that a report should be written for the recipients to well understand your interpretation and understanding of the vocational factors.  I see lots of reports with an overabundance of vocational and economic terminology that is difficult for the non-vocational recipient to understand or more importantly to transfer to the world of work.  This is also true of functional capacities evaluations which may go into great detail about things such as degrees of supination and pronation, degrees of range of motion, etc., but not well explain how these variables affect the evaluee's work abilities.  Not all, but many.  To me, the ability to write well and explain your foundation, analysis, conclusions and recommendations is extremely important and does not equate to a subjective vocational analysis.

"Boise Barb"

Hello Barb,

The example of a truck driver and a construction worker not needing a transferable skills analysis, because of many years of working with these occupations sounds like your theory of a  vocational  analysis.

What does one consider when reviewing worker traits, that may impact a person's ability to work at a competitive and sustained rate? 

Does pain impact a worker's ability to function at a competitive and sustained rate?

What traits are impacted by pain?

What traits are impacted by a workers inability to work at a full range of motion?

Should a rehabilitation counselor/ vocational evaluator consider a workers; education development/ aptitudes/ physical capacities/&  environmental tolerances?  If yes, how does one consider these thousands of bits of information?

If a worker was under employed [had higher education development and aptitudes] then his truck driving or construction occupation worker trait demands – should that be considered – and how would one know if these high levels competency levels exist without testing these traits?  How does good writing work better than a transferable skills analysis using objective measures?

If say a roofer [Joe]on the job was poor in math and always had his best buddy [Billy] do the measuring and he did more of the nail gun work – how would you know the deficit without testing?...and then consider the transferable skills by good writing?

What does a formal TSA or transferable skills analysis force a rehab counselor/ vocational evaluator to do before the actual transferable skills?  Does one need objective data for each trait that is analyzed?  How does one analyze occupations and worker's DOT work history, injury, trait competencies, through good writing.

Would access to employment be important vocational information?  How can a rehab counselor/ vocational evaluator make that determination using thousands of bits of information by good writing?

The question that just rings very loud to me is; subjective vocational evaluation or objective vocational evaluation, which one would you want to be used on your self if injured?...if you were a truck driver or construction worker.    

Ronald T. Smolarski, M.A.

Certified Life Care Planner

Forensic Economist

Certified Functional Capacity  Evaluator

Vocational Expert

ron@beaconrehab.com

www.beaconrehab.com

(800) 821-8463

Ann Arbor Michigan, USA

DISCLAIMER: This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Additionally, this communication and/or attached files may contain protected health information, which is governed by HIPAA regulations. If this information is intended to be forwarded or shared, you and your entity are responsible to assure HIPAA regulation and guidelines are followed. If you are not the intended recipient any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.

Don't you agree that in some cases, particularly Work Comp, where individuals have worked in one or two occupations for the duration of their work history, such as truck driving and construction labor, that you really don't need to do a formal TSA.  I feel like after all these years, I don't need a computer to tell me what their skills are and if they transfer to other occupations within their physical capacities.  I do feel that good writing is important to describe the analysis and your conclusions, but don't think it is necessary to produce a computer generated TSA or a handwritten VDARE.  In more complex cases with a more varied work history, better educational achievement, etc., I do believe the analysis should include these methods.

"Boise Barb"

Scott I saw your post and  thought it was interested but still recovering from overworking prior to the conference, the conference and a hectic week this week!    I intended to respond just been offline trying to recover!

I see experts  who use a TSA or reference one but suspect they did not do one.  When asked they speak in generalities or cannot produce a computer generated or hand written VDARE TSA.   I read an opposing expert deposition recently where  the opposing expert recently mentioned transferable skills in the report but confirmed he or she did not do an TSA, they just know because they have been an expert x number of years.   The reality in many cases is that they are cutting costs.  Most reports I see that have no TSA I suspect are because they are charging an incredibly low flat rate for their  evaluation and report. I suspect they cut corners for that reason.  

Not using generally accepted methodology has all kinds of implications.  Will that individual sustain a motion in limine?

Hearing Dr. Tim Field at Forensic 101 and Forensic 201 he mentioned several times we should be about excellent work product. I do not think this is excellent work. 

I also see in reports  where they aren't interested in work.  Again,  we are to consider work capacity, whether they choose to return to work or not. 

I see this lack of method  in all kinds of cases, WC and liability.    It is what I call a haphazard approach to a vocational opinion.   Definitely not excellent work.

Thanks for starting the conversation!

Best regards,

Michelle McBroom Weiss, MA, CRC, CCM, NCC, MSCC, ABVE/D, IPEC

5543 Edmondson Pike, Suite 128

Nashville, TN 37211

mcbroomweiss@mcbroomweiss.com

(P) 615-834-0186

(F) 615-831-5274

(C) 615-308-6395

How can you write a report without comparing your test findings to all the DOT numbers [in your geo area] and also including my questions indicated in my previous email without being subjective?

Ronald T. Smolarski, M.A.

Certified Life Care Planner

Forensic Economist

Certified Functional Capacity  Evaluator

Vocational Expert

ron@beaconrehab.com

www.beaconrehab.com

(800) 821-8463

Ann Arbor Michigan, USA

DISCLAIMER: This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Additionally, this communication and/or attached files may contain protected health information, which is governed by HIPAA regulations. If this information is intended to be forwarded or shared, you and your entity are responsible to assure HIPAA regulation and guidelines are followed. If you are not the intended recipient any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.

I never said nor implied that all of those variables were not important and should not be included.  Most of these factors are not measured with a computer, but rather with solid vocational testing, research, and analysis.  Good writing is extremely important in relaying this information to the recipient of the report, generally an attorney or lay vocational person.  I strongly believe that a report should be written for the recipients to well understand your interpretation and understanding of the vocational factors.  I see lots of reports with an overabundance of vocational and economic terminology that is difficult for the non-vocational recipient to understand or more importantly to transfer to the world of work.  This is also true of functional capacities evaluations which may go into great detail about things such as degrees of supination and pronation, degrees of range of motion, etc., but not well explain how these variables affect the evaluee's work abilities.  Not all, but many.  To me, the ability to write well and explain your foundation, analysis, conclusions and recommendations is extremely important and does not equate to a subjective vocational analysis.

"Boise Barb"

Hello Barb,

The example of a truck driver and a construction worker not needing a transferable skills analysis, because of many years of working with these occupations sounds like your theory of a  vocational  analysis.

What does one consider when reviewing worker traits, that may impact a person's ability to work at a competitive and sustained rate? 

Does pain impact a worker's ability to function at a competitive and sustained rate?

What traits are impacted by pain?

What traits are impacted by a workers inability to work at a full range of motion?

Should a rehabilitation counselor/ vocational evaluator consider a workers; education development/ aptitudes/ physical capacities/&  environmental tolerances?  If yes, how does one consider these thousands of bits of information?

If a worker was under employed [had higher education development and aptitudes] then his truck driving or construction occupation worker trait demands – should that be considered – and how would one know if these high levels competency levels exist without testing these traits?  How does good writing work better than a transferable skills analysis using objective measures?

If say a roofer [Joe]on the job was poor in math and always had his best buddy [Billy] do the measuring and he did more of the nail gun work – how would you know the deficit without testing?...and then consider the transferable skills by good writing?

What does a formal TSA or transferable skills analysis force a rehab counselor/ vocational evaluator to do before the actual transferable skills?  Does one need objective data for each trait that is analyzed?  How does one analyze occupations and worker's DOT work history, injury, trait competencies, through good writing.

Would access to employment be important vocational information?  How can a rehab counselor/ vocational evaluator make that determination using thousands of bits of information by good writing?

The question that just rings very loud to me is; subjective vocational evaluation or objective vocational evaluation, which one would you want to be used on your self if injured?...if you were a truck driver or construction worker.    

Ronald T. Smolarski, M.A.

Certified Life Care Planner

Forensic Economist

Certified Functional Capacity  Evaluator

Vocational Expert

ron@beaconrehab.com

www.beaconrehab.com

(800) 821-8463

Ann Arbor Michigan, USA

DISCLAIMER: This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Additionally, this communication and/or attached files may contain protected health information, which is governed by HIPAA regulations. If this information is intended to be forwarded or shared, you and your entity are responsible to assure HIPAA regulation and guidelines are followed. If you are not the intended recipient any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.

Don't you agree that in some cases, particularly Work Comp, where individuals have worked in one or two occupations for the duration of their work history, such as truck driving and construction labor, that you really don't need to do a formal TSA.  I feel like after all these years, I don't need a computer to tell me what their skills are and if they transfer to other occupations within their physical capacities.  I do feel that good writing is important to describe the analysis and your conclusions, but don't think it is necessary to produce a computer generated TSA or a handwritten VDARE.  In more complex cases with a more varied work history, better educational achievement, etc., I do believe the analysis should include these methods.

"Boise Barb"

Scott I saw your post and  thought it was interested but still recovering from overworking prior to the conference, the conference and a hectic week this week!    I intended to respond just been offline trying to recover!

I see experts  who use a TSA or reference one but suspect they did not do one.  When asked they speak in generalities or cannot produce a computer generated or hand written VDARE TSA.   I read an opposing expert deposition recently where  the opposing expert recently mentioned transferable skills in the report but confirmed he or she did not do an TSA, they just know because they have been an expert x number of years.   The reality in many cases is that they are cutting costs.  Most reports I see that have no TSA I suspect are because they are charging an incredibly low flat rate for their  evaluation and report. I suspect they cut corners for that reason.  

Not using generally accepted methodology has all kinds of implications.  Will that individual sustain a motion in limine?

Hearing Dr. Tim Field at Forensic 101 and Forensic 201 he mentioned several times we should be about excellent work product. I do not think this is excellent work. 

I also see in reports  where they aren't interested in work.  Again,  we are to consider work capacity, whether they choose to return to work or not. 

I see this lack of method  in all kinds of cases, WC and liability.    It is what I call a haphazard approach to a vocational opinion.   Definitely not excellent work.

Thanks for starting the conversation!

Best regards,

Michelle McBroom Weiss, MA, CRC, CCM, NCC, MSCC, ABVE/D, IPEC

5543 Edmondson Pike, Suite 128

Nashville, TN 37211

mcbroomweiss@mcbroomweiss.com

(P) 615-834-0186

(F) 615-831-5274

(C) 615-308-6395

How can you write a report without comparing your test findings to all the DOT numbers [in your geo area] and also including my questions indicated in my previous email without being subjective?

Ronald T. Smolarski, M.A.

Certified Life Care Planner

Forensic Economist

Certified Functional Capacity  Evaluator

Vocational Expert

ron@beaconrehab.com

www.beaconrehab.com

(800) 821-8463

Ann Arbor Michigan, USA

DISCLAIMER: This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Additionally, this communication and/or attached files may contain protected health information, which is governed by HIPAA regulations. If this information is intended to be forwarded or shared, you and your entity are responsible to assure HIPAA regulation and guidelines are followed. If you are not the intended recipient any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.

I never said nor implied that all of those variables were not important and should not be included.  Most of these factors are not measured with a computer, but rather with solid vocational testing, research, and analysis.  Good writing is extremely important in relaying this information to the recipient of the report, generally an attorney or lay vocational person.  I strongly believe that a report should be written for the recipients to well understand your interpretation and understanding of the vocational factors.  I see lots of reports with an overabundance of vocational and economic terminology that is difficult for the non-vocational recipient to understand or more importantly to transfer to the world of work.  This is also true of functional capacities evaluations which may go into great detail about things such as degrees of supination and pronation, degrees of range of motion, etc., but not well explain how these variables affect the evaluee's work abilities.  Not all, but many.  To me, the ability to write well and explain your foundation, analysis, conclusions and recommendations is extremely important and does not equate to a subjective vocational analysis.

"Boise Barb"

Hello Barb,

The example of a truck driver and a construction worker not needing a transferable skills analysis, because of many years of working with these occupations sounds like your theory of a  vocational  analysis.

What does one consider when reviewing worker traits, that may impact a person's ability to work at a competitive and sustained rate? 

Does pain impact a worker's ability to function at a competitive and sustained rate?

What traits are impacted by pain?

What traits are impacted by a workers inability to work at a full range of motion?

Should a rehabilitation counselor/ vocational evaluator consider a workers; education development/ aptitudes/ physical capacities/&  environmental tolerances?  If yes, how does one consider these thousands of bits of information?

If a worker was under employed [had higher education development and aptitudes] then his truck driving or construction occupation worker trait demands – should that be considered – and how would one know if these high levels competency levels exist without testing these traits?  How does good writing work better than a transferable skills analysis using objective measures?

If say a roofer [Joe]on the job was poor in math and always had his best buddy [Billy] do the measuring and he did more of the nail gun work – how would you know the deficit without testing?...and then consider the transferable skills by good writing?

What does a formal TSA or transferable skills analysis force a rehab counselor/ vocational evaluator to do before the actual transferable skills?  Does one need objective data for each trait that is analyzed?  How does one analyze occupations and worker's DOT work history, injury, trait competencies, through good writing.

Would access to employment be important vocational information?  How can a rehab counselor/ vocational evaluator make that determination using thousands of bits of information by good writing?

The question that just rings very loud to me is; subjective vocational evaluation or objective vocational evaluation, which one would you want to be used on your self if injured?...if you were a truck driver or construction worker.    

Ronald T. Smolarski, M.A.

Certified Life Care Planner

Forensic Economist

Certified Functional Capacity  Evaluator

Vocational Expert

ron@beaconrehab.com

www.beaconrehab.com

(800) 821-8463

Ann Arbor Michigan, USA

DISCLAIMER: This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Additionally, this communication and/or attached files may contain protected health information, which is governed by HIPAA regulations. If this information is intended to be forwarded or shared, you and your entity are responsible to assure HIPAA regulation and guidelines are followed. If you are not the intended recipient any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.

Don't you agree that in some cases, particularly Work Comp, where individuals have worked in one or two occupations for the duration of their work history, such as truck driving and construction labor, that you really don't need to do a formal TSA.  I feel like after all these years, I don't need a computer to tell me what their skills are and if they transfer to other occupations within their physical capacities.  I do feel that good writing is important to describe the analysis and your conclusions, but don't think it is necessary to produce a computer generated TSA or a handwritten VDARE.  In more complex cases with a more varied work history, better educational achievement, etc., I do believe the analysis should include these methods.

"Boise Barb"

Scott I saw your post and  thought it was interested but still recovering from overworking prior to the conference, the conference and a hectic week this week!    I intended to respond just been offline trying to recover!

I see experts  who use a TSA or reference one but suspect they did not do one.  When asked they speak in generalities or cannot produce a computer generated or hand written VDARE TSA.   I read an opposing expert deposition recently where  the opposing expert recently mentioned transferable skills in the report but confirmed he or she did not do an TSA, they just know because they have been an expert x number of years.   The reality in many cases is that they are cutting costs.  Most reports I see that have no TSA I suspect are because they are charging an incredibly low flat rate for their  evaluation and report. I suspect they cut corners for that reason.  

Not using generally accepted methodology has all kinds of implications.  Will that individual sustain a motion in limine?

Hearing Dr. Tim Field at Forensic 101 and Forensic 201 he mentioned several times we should be about excellent work product. I do not think this is excellent work. 

I also see in reports  where they aren't interested in work.  Again,  we are to consider work capacity, whether they choose to return to work or not. 

I see this lack of method  in all kinds of cases, WC and liability.    It is what I call a haphazard approach to a vocational opinion.   Definitely not excellent work.

Thanks for starting the conversation!

Best regards,

Michelle McBroom Weiss, MA, CRC, CCM, NCC, MSCC, ABVE/D, IPEC

5543 Edmondson Pike, Suite 128

Nashville, TN 37211

mcbroomweiss@mcbroomweiss.com

(P) 615-834-0186

(F) 615-831-5274

(C) 615-308-6395

How can you write a report without comparing your test findings to all the DOT numbers [in your geo area] and also including my questions indicated in my previous email without being subjective?

Ronald T. Smolarski, M.A.

Certified Life Care Planner

Forensic Economist

Certified Functional Capacity  Evaluator

Vocational Expert

ron@beaconrehab.com

www.beaconrehab.com

(800) 821-8463

Ann Arbor Michigan, USA

DISCLAIMER: This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Additionally, this communication and/or attached files may contain protected health information, which is governed by HIPAA regulations. If this information is intended to be forwarded or shared, you and your entity are responsible to assure HIPAA regulation and guidelines are followed. If you are not the intended recipient any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.

I never said nor implied that all of those variables were not important and should not be included.  Most of these factors are not measured with a computer, but rather with solid vocational testing, research, and analysis.  Good writing is extremely important in relaying this information to the recipient of the report, generally an attorney or lay vocational person.  I strongly believe that a report should be written for the recipients to well understand your interpretation and understanding of the vocational factors.  I see lots of reports with an overabundance of vocational and economic terminology that is difficult for the non-vocational recipient to understand or more importantly to transfer to the world of work.  This is also true of functional capacities evaluations which may go into great detail about things such as degrees of supination and pronation, degrees of range of motion, etc., but not well explain how these variables affect the evaluee's work abilities.  Not all, but many.  To me, the ability to write well and explain your foundation, analysis, conclusions and recommendations is extremely important and does not equate to a subjective vocational analysis.

"Boise Barb"

Hello Barb,

The example of a truck driver and a construction worker not needing a transferable skills analysis, because of many years of working with these occupations sounds like your theory of a  vocational  analysis.

What does one consider when reviewing worker traits, that may impact a person's ability to work at a competitive and sustained rate? 

Does pain impact a worker's ability to function at a competitive and sustained rate?

What traits are impacted by pain?

What traits are impacted by a workers inability to work at a full range of motion?

Should a rehabilitation counselor/ vocational evaluator consider a workers; education development/ aptitudes/ physical capacities/&  environmental tolerances?  If yes, how does one consider these thousands of bits of information?

If a worker was under employed [had higher education development and aptitudes] then his truck driving or construction occupation worker trait demands – should that be considered – and how would one know if these high levels competency levels exist without testing these traits?  How does good writing work better than a transferable skills analysis using objective measures?

If say a roofer [Joe]on the job was poor in math and always had his best buddy [Billy] do the measuring and he did more of the nail gun work – how would you know the deficit without testing?...and then consider the transferable skills by good writing?

What does a formal TSA or transferable skills analysis force a rehab counselor/ vocational evaluator to do before the actual transferable skills?  Does one need objective data for each trait that is analyzed?  How does one analyze occupations and worker's DOT work history, injury, trait competencies, through good writing.

Would access to employment be important vocational information?  How can a rehab counselor/ vocational evaluator make that determination using thousands of bits of information by good writing?

The question that just rings very loud to me is; subjective vocational evaluation or objective vocational evaluation, which one would you want to be used on your self if injured?...if you were a truck driver or construction worker.    

Ronald T. Smolarski, M.A.

Certified Life Care Planner

Forensic Economist

Certified Functional Capacity  Evaluator

Vocational Expert

ron@beaconrehab.com

www.beaconrehab.com

(800) 821-8463

Ann Arbor Michigan, USA

DISCLAIMER: This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Additionally, this communication and/or attached files may contain protected health information, which is governed by HIPAA regulations. If this information is intended to be forwarded or shared, you and your entity are responsible to assure HIPAA regulation and guidelines are followed. If you are not the intended recipient any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.

Don't you agree that in some cases, particularly Work Comp, where individuals have worked in one or two occupations for the duration of their work history, such as truck driving and construction labor, that you really don't need to do a formal TSA.  I feel like after all these years, I don't need a computer to tell me what their skills are and if they transfer to other occupations within their physical capacities.  I do feel that good writing is important to describe the analysis and your conclusions, but don't think it is necessary to produce a computer generated TSA or a handwritten VDARE.  In more complex cases with a more varied work history, better educational achievement, etc., I do believe the analysis should include these methods.

"Boise Barb"

Scott I saw your post and  thought it was interested but still recovering from overworking prior to the conference, the conference and a hectic week this week!    I intended to respond just been offline trying to recover!

I see experts  who use a TSA or reference one but suspect they did not do one.  When asked they speak in generalities or cannot produce a computer generated or hand written VDARE TSA.   I read an opposing expert deposition recently where  the opposing expert recently mentioned transferable skills in the report but confirmed he or she did not do an TSA, they just know because they have been an expert x number of years.   The reality in many cases is that they are cutting costs.  Most reports I see that have no TSA I suspect are because they are charging an incredibly low flat rate for their  evaluation and report. I suspect they cut corners for that reason.  

Not using generally accepted methodology has all kinds of implications.  Will that individual sustain a motion in limine?

Hearing Dr. Tim Field at Forensic 101 and Forensic 201 he mentioned several times we should be about excellent work product. I do not think this is excellent work. 

I also see in reports  where they aren't interested in work.  Again,  we are to consider work capacity, whether they choose to return to work or not. 

I see this lack of method  in all kinds of cases, WC and liability.    It is what I call a haphazard approach to a vocational opinion.   Definitely not excellent work.

Thanks for starting the conversation!

Best regards,

Michelle McBroom Weiss, MA, CRC, CCM, NCC, MSCC, ABVE/D, IPEC

5543 Edmondson Pike, Suite 128

Nashville, TN 37211

mcbroomweiss@mcbroomweiss.com

(P) 615-834-0186

(F) 615-831-5274

(C) 615-308-6395

How can you write a report without comparing your test findings to all the DOT numbers [in your geo area] and also including my questions indicated in my previous email without being subjective?

Ronald T. Smolarski, M.A.

Certified Life Care Planner

Forensic Economist

Certified Functional Capacity  Evaluator

Vocational Expert

ron@beaconrehab.com

www.beaconrehab.com

(800) 821-8463

Ann Arbor Michigan, USA

DISCLAIMER: This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Additionally, this communication and/or attached files may contain protected health information, which is governed by HIPAA regulations. If this information is intended to be forwarded or shared, you and your entity are responsible to assure HIPAA regulation and guidelines are followed. If you are not the intended recipient any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.

I never said nor implied that all of those variables were not important and should not be included.  Most of these factors are not measured with a computer, but rather with solid vocational testing, research, and analysis.  Good writing is extremely important in relaying this information to the recipient of the report, generally an attorney or lay vocational person.  I strongly believe that a report should be written for the recipients to well understand your interpretation and understanding of the vocational factors.  I see lots of reports with an overabundance of vocational and economic terminology that is difficult for the non-vocational recipient to understand or more importantly to transfer to the world of work.  This is also true of functional capacities evaluations which may go into great detail about things such as degrees of supination and pronation, degrees of range of motion, etc., but not well explain how these variables affect the evaluee's work abilities.  Not all, but many.  To me, the ability to write well and explain your foundation, analysis, conclusions and recommendations is extremely important and does not equate to a subjective vocational analysis.

"Boise Barb"

Hello Barb,

The example of a truck driver and a construction worker not needing a transferable skills analysis, because of many years of working with these occupations sounds like your theory of a  vocational  analysis.

What does one consider when reviewing worker traits, that may impact a person's ability to work at a competitive and sustained rate? 

Does pain impact a worker's ability to function at a competitive and sustained rate?

What traits are impacted by pain?

What traits are impacted by a workers inability to work at a full range of motion?

Should a rehabilitation counselor/ vocational evaluator consider a workers; education development/ aptitudes/ physical capacities/&  environmental tolerances?  If yes, how does one consider these thousands of bits of information?

If a worker was under employed [had higher education development and aptitudes] then his truck driving or construction occupation worker trait demands – should that be considered – and how would one know if these high levels competency levels exist without testing these traits?  How does good writing work better than a transferable skills analysis using objective measures?

If say a roofer [Joe]on the job was poor in math and always had his best buddy [Billy] do the measuring and he did more of the nail gun work – how would you know the deficit without testing?...and then consider the transferable skills by good writing?

What does a formal TSA or transferable skills analysis force a rehab counselor/ vocational evaluator to do before the actual transferable skills?  Does one need objective data for each trait that is analyzed?  How does one analyze occupations and worker's DOT work history, injury, trait competencies, through good writing.

Would access to employment be important vocational information?  How can a rehab counselor/ vocational evaluator make that determination using thousands of bits of information by good writing?

The question that just rings very loud to me is; subjective vocational evaluation or objective vocational evaluation, which one would you want to be used on your self if injured?...if you were a truck driver or construction worker.    

Ronald T. Smolarski, M.A.

Certified Life Care Planner

Forensic Economist

Certified Functional Capacity  Evaluator

Vocational Expert

ron@beaconrehab.com

www.beaconrehab.com

(800) 821-8463

Ann Arbor Michigan, USA

DISCLAIMER: This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Additionally, this communication and/or attached files may contain protected health information, which is governed by HIPAA regulations. If this information is intended to be forwarded or shared, you and your entity are responsible to assure HIPAA regulation and guidelines are followed. If you are not the intended recipient any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.

Don't you agree that in some cases, particularly Work Comp, where individuals have worked in one or two occupations for the duration of their work history, such as truck driving and construction labor, that you really don't need to do a formal TSA.  I feel like after all these years, I don't need a computer to tell me what their skills are and if they transfer to other occupations within their physical capacities.  I do feel that good writing is important to describe the analysis and your conclusions, but don't think it is necessary to produce a computer generated TSA or a handwritten VDARE.  In more complex cases with a more varied work history, better educational achievement, etc., I do believe the analysis should include these methods.

"Boise Barb"

Scott I saw your post and  thought it was interested but still recovering from overworking prior to the conference, the conference and a hectic week this week!    I intended to respond just been offline trying to recover!

I see experts  who use a TSA or reference one but suspect they did not do one.  When asked they speak in generalities or cannot produce a computer generated or hand written VDARE TSA.   I read an opposing expert deposition recently where  the opposing expert recently mentioned transferable skills in the report but confirmed he or she did not do an TSA, they just know because they have been an expert x number of years.   The reality in many cases is that they are cutting costs.  Most reports I see that have no TSA I suspect are because they are charging an incredibly low flat rate for their  evaluation and report. I suspect they cut corners for that reason.  

Not using generally accepted methodology has all kinds of implications.  Will that individual sustain a motion in limine?

Hearing Dr. Tim Field at Forensic 101 and Forensic 201 he mentioned several times we should be about excellent work product. I do not think this is excellent work. 

I also see in reports  where they aren't interested in work.  Again,  we are to consider work capacity, whether they choose to return to work or not. 

I see this lack of method  in all kinds of cases, WC and liability.    It is what I call a haphazard approach to a vocational opinion.   Definitely not excellent work.

Thanks for starting the conversation!

Best regards,

Michelle McBroom Weiss, MA, CRC, CCM, NCC, MSCC, ABVE/D, IPEC

5543 Edmondson Pike, Suite 128

Nashville, TN 37211

mcbroomweiss@mcbroomweiss.com

(P) 615-834-0186

(F) 615-831-5274

(C) 615-308-6395

How can you write a report without comparing your test findings to all the DOT numbers [in your geo area] and also including my questions indicated in my previous email without being subjective?

Ronald T. Smolarski, M.A.

Certified Life Care Planner

Forensic Economist

Certified Functional Capacity  Evaluator

Vocational Expert

ron@beaconrehab.com

www.beaconrehab.com

(800) 821-8463

Ann Arbor Michigan, USA

DISCLAIMER: This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Additionally, this communication and/or attached files may contain protected health information, which is governed by HIPAA regulations. If this information is intended to be forwarded or shared, you and your entity are responsible to assure HIPAA regulation and guidelines are followed. If you are not the intended recipient any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.

I never said nor implied that all of those variables were not important and should not be included.  Most of these factors are not measured with a computer, but rather with solid vocational testing, research, and analysis.  Good writing is extremely important in relaying this information to the recipient of the report, generally an attorney or lay vocational person.  I strongly believe that a report should be written for the recipients to well understand your interpretation and understanding of the vocational factors.  I see lots of reports with an overabundance of vocational and economic terminology that is difficult for the non-vocational recipient to understand or more importantly to transfer to the world of work.  This is also true of functional capacities evaluations which may go into great detail about things such as degrees of supination and pronation, degrees of range of motion, etc., but not well explain how these variables affect the evaluee's work abilities.  Not all, but many.  To me, the ability to write well and explain your foundation, analysis, conclusions and recommendations is extremely important and does not equate to a subjective vocational analysis.

"Boise Barb"

Hello Barb,

The example of a truck driver and a construction worker not needing a transferable skills analysis, because of many years of working with these occupations sounds like your theory of a  vocational  analysis.

What does one consider when reviewing worker traits, that may impact a person's ability to work at a competitive and sustained rate? 

Does pain impact a worker's ability to function at a competitive and sustained rate?

What traits are impacted by pain?

What traits are impacted by a workers inability to work at a full range of motion?

Should a rehabilitation counselor/ vocational evaluator consider a workers; education development/ aptitudes/ physical capacities/&  environmental tolerances?  If yes, how does one consider these thousands of bits of information?

If a worker was under employed [had higher education development and aptitudes] then his truck driving or construction occupation worker trait demands – should that be considered – and how would one know if these high levels competency levels exist without testing these traits?  How does good writing work better than a transferable skills analysis using objective measures?

If say a roofer [Joe]on the job was poor in math and always had his best buddy [Billy] do the measuring and he did more of the nail gun work – how would you know the deficit without testing?...and then consider the transferable skills by good writing?

What does a formal TSA or transferable skills analysis force a rehab counselor/ vocational evaluator to do before the actual transferable skills?  Does one need objective data for each trait that is analyzed?  How does one analyze occupations and worker's DOT work history, injury, trait competencies, through good writing.

Would access to employment be important vocational information?  How can a rehab counselor/ vocational evaluator make that determination using thousands of bits of information by good writing?

The question that just rings very loud to me is; subjective vocational evaluation or objective vocational evaluation, which one would you want to be used on your self if injured?...if you were a truck driver or construction worker.    

Ronald T. Smolarski, M.A.

Certified Life Care Planner

Forensic Economist

Certified Functional Capacity  Evaluator

Vocational Expert

ron@beaconrehab.com

www.beaconrehab.com

(800) 821-8463

Ann Arbor Michigan, USA

DISCLAIMER: This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Additionally, this communication and/or attached files may contain protected health information, which is governed by HIPAA regulations. If this information is intended to be forwarded or shared, you and your entity are responsible to assure HIPAA regulation and guidelines are followed. If you are not the intended recipient any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.

Don't you agree that in some cases, particularly Work Comp, where individuals have worked in one or two occupations for the duration of their work history, such as truck driving and construction labor, that you really don't need to do a formal TSA.  I feel like after all these years, I don't need a computer to tell me what their skills are and if they transfer to other occupations within their physical capacities.  I do feel that good writing is important to describe the analysis and your conclusions, but don't think it is necessary to produce a computer generated TSA or a handwritten VDARE.  In more complex cases with a more varied work history, better educational achievement, etc., I do believe the analysis should include these methods.

"Boise Barb"

Scott I saw your post and  thought it was interested but still recovering from overworking prior to the conference, the conference and a hectic week this week!    I intended to respond just been offline trying to recover!

I see experts  who use a TSA or reference one but suspect they did not do one.  When asked they speak in generalities or cannot produce a computer generated or hand written VDARE TSA.   I read an opposing expert deposition recently where  the opposing expert recently mentioned transferable skills in the report but confirmed he or she did not do an TSA, they just know because they have been an expert x number of years.   The reality in many cases is that they are cutting costs.  Most reports I see that have no TSA I suspect are because they are charging an incredibly low flat rate for their  evaluation and report. I suspect they cut corners for that reason.  

Not using generally accepted methodology has all kinds of implications.  Will that individual sustain a motion in limine?

Hearing Dr. Tim Field at Forensic 101 and Forensic 201 he mentioned several times we should be about excellent work product. I do not think this is excellent work. 

I also see in reports  where they aren't interested in work.  Again,  we are to consider work capacity, whether they choose to return to work or not. 

I see this lack of method  in all kinds of cases, WC and liability.    It is what I call a haphazard approach to a vocational opinion.   Definitely not excellent work.

Thanks for starting the conversation!

Best regards,

Michelle McBroom Weiss, MA, CRC, CCM, NCC, MSCC, ABVE/D, IPEC

5543 Edmondson Pike, Suite 128

Nashville, TN 37211

mcbroomweiss@mcbroomweiss.com

(P) 615-834-0186

(F) 615-831-5274

(C) 615-308-6395

Scott I saw your post and  thought it was interested but still recovering from overworking prior to the conference, the conference and a hectic week this week!    I intended to respond just been offline trying to recover!

I see experts  who use a TSA or reference one but suspect they did not do one.  When asked they speak in generalities or cannot produce a computer generated or hand written VDARE TSA.   I read an opposing expert deposition recently where  the opposing expert recently mentioned transferable skills in the report but confirmed he or she did not do an TSA, they just know because they have been an expert x number of years.   The reality in many cases is that they are cutting costs.  Most reports I see that have no TSA I suspect are because they are charging an incredibly low flat rate for their  evaluation and report. I suspect they cut corners for that reason.  

Not using generally accepted methodology has all kinds of implications.  Will that individual sustain a motion in limine?

Hearing Dr. Tim Field at Forensic 101 and Forensic 201 he mentioned several times we should be about excellent work product. I do not think this is excellent work. 

I also see in reports  where they aren't interested in work.  Again,  we are to consider work capacity, whether they choose to return to work or not. 

I see this lack of method  in all kinds of cases, WC and liability.    It is what I call a haphazard approach to a vocational opinion.   Definitely not excellent work.

Thanks for starting the conversation!

Best regards,

Michelle McBroom Weiss, MA, CRC, CCM, NCC, MSCC, ABVE/D, IPEC

5543 Edmondson Pike, Suite 128

Nashville, TN 37211

mcbroomweiss@mcbroomweiss.com

(P) 615-834-0186

(F) 615-831-5274

(C) 615-308-6395

Scott I saw your post and  thought it was interested but still recovering from overworking prior to the conference, the conference and a hectic week this week!    I intended to respond just been offline trying to recover!

I see experts  who use a TSA or reference one but suspect they did not do one.  When asked they speak in generalities or cannot produce a computer generated or hand written VDARE TSA.   I read an opposing expert deposition recently where  the opposing expert recently mentioned transferable skills in the report but confirmed he or she did not do an TSA, they just know because they have been an expert x number of years.   The reality in many cases is that they are cutting costs.  Most reports I see that have no TSA I suspect are because they are charging an incredibly low flat rate for their  evaluation and report. I suspect they cut corners for that reason.  

Not using generally accepted methodology has all kinds of implications.  Will that individual sustain a motion in limine?

Hearing Dr. Tim Field at Forensic 101 and Forensic 201 he mentioned several times we should be about excellent work product. I do not think this is excellent work. 

I also see in reports  where they aren't interested in work.  Again,  we are to consider work capacity, whether they choose to return to work or not. 

I see this lack of method  in all kinds of cases, WC and liability.    It is what I call a haphazard approach to a vocational opinion.   Definitely not excellent work.

Thanks for starting the conversation!

Best regards,

Michelle McBroom Weiss, MA, CRC, CCM, NCC, MSCC, ABVE/D, IPEC

5543 Edmondson Pike, Suite 128

Nashville, TN 37211

mcbroomweiss@mcbroomweiss.com

(P) 615-834-0186

(F) 615-831-5274

(C) 615-308-6395

So funny Michelle A.  I have often said I am working in the Wild West!  It feels like it some days! 

Michelle McBroom Weiss, MA, CRC, CCM, NCC, MSCC, ABVE/D, IPEC

5543 Edmondson Pike, Suite 128

Nashville, TN 37211

mcbroomweiss@mcbroomweiss.com

(P) 615-834-0186

(F) 615-831-5274

(C) 615-308-6395

Scott I saw your post and  thought it was interested but still recovering from overworking prior to the conference, the conference and a hectic week this week!    I intended to respond just been offline trying to recover!

I see experts  who use a TSA or reference one but suspect they did not do one.  When asked they speak in generalities or cannot produce a computer generated or hand written VDARE TSA.   I read an opposing expert deposition recently where  the opposing expert recently mentioned transferable skills in the report but confirmed he or she did not do an TSA, they just know because they have been an expert x number of years.   The reality in many cases is that they are cutting costs.  Most reports I see that have no TSA I suspect are because they are charging an incredibly low flat rate for their  evaluation and report. I suspect they cut corners for that reason.  

Not using generally accepted methodology has all kinds of implications.  Will that individual sustain a motion in limine?

Hearing Dr. Tim Field at Forensic 101 and Forensic 201 he mentioned several times we should be about excellent work product. I do not think this is excellent work. 

I also see in reports  where they aren't interested in work.  Again,  we are to consider work capacity, whether they choose to return to work or not. 

I see this lack of method  in all kinds of cases, WC and liability.    It is what I call a haphazard approach to a vocational opinion.   Definitely not excellent work.

Thanks for starting the conversation!

Best regards,

Michelle McBroom Weiss, MA, CRC, CCM, NCC, MSCC, ABVE/D, IPEC

5543 Edmondson Pike, Suite 128

Nashville, TN 37211

mcbroomweiss@mcbroomweiss.com

(P) 615-834-0186

(F) 615-831-5274

(C) 615-308-6395