Discussion: View Thread

Membership Renewal

  • 1.  Membership Renewal

    Posted 20 days ago

    Fellow colleagues,

    After nearly a decade of continuous membership with IARP, this is the first year I find myself genuinely questioning whether renewal is worth the $325 annual fee. While I've long valued professional associations as a space for shared growth and collaboration, I have grown increasingly discouraged by the overall direction and engagement within the organization.

    The discussion boards, which should foster thoughtful professional exchange, often devolve into dismissive commentary or political tangents. When vocational topics are raised, too many conversations seem to circle back to SSVE work, which, for those of us who choose not to participate in that niche, leaves limited opportunity for meaningful engagement or knowledge exchange. Personally, I do not find SSVE work professionally fulfilling, nor do I enjoy spending my days on the phone being second-guessed by ALJs or attorneys.

    In comparison with my experiences in organizations such as ABVE and AREA, I struggle to see what distinct educational or professional value IARP continues to offer its forensic members. At present, I do not feel I am gaining practical insight, professional development, or collegial collaboration proportionate to the financial commitment required.

    I share this not to disparage the organization, but in the hope that constructive feedback might prompt reflection on how IARP can better serve professionals in all areas of rehabilitation and forensic practice-especially those of us seeking genuine advancement and exchange beyond the SSVE framework.

    I welcome any conversation or rebuttal points. 

    Thank you

    Christopher Skerritt



    ------------------------------
    Christopher Skerritt CRC, CVE, IPEC, ABVE/F, CLCP, MSCC

    Kincaid Wolstein Vocational & Rehabilitation Services
    1 University Plaza ~ Suite 302
    Hackensack, New Jersey 07601

    T: (201) 343-0700  F: (201) 343-0757
    M: (203) 605-2814
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Membership Renewal

    Posted 20 days ago

    Hello Christopher,

    I understand the evaluation of professional and financial value you conduct every time you receive a renewal notice from a professional organization.

    I do the same. I just received my renewal notice from ABVE ($320) this week. I will renew both ABVE and IARP since I receive a depth of knowledge, insight, and professional connections from that combination of associations that I would not realize from only one.

    I share your displeasure with discussion board posts that begin "this is not a political post" and then continue to express a political or otherwise divisive opinion.  The 24-hour news cycle, social media and unhelpful discussion board posts have made me adept at swiping, deleting, muting, changing channels, and otherwise ignoring  such attempts to engage me.

    If you do not practice as a Vocational Expert for the SSA disability process, you should not be inundated with SSVE content as they have a separate discussion board. I understand there are occasional posts on the forensic board however, it seems many of those posts are from folks who do not currently practice in that field.

    As annoying as some posts can be, I know of no other professional association in our fields that offer discussion board access to their members (please correct me if I'm misinformed). In my experience the discussion boards have been invaluable to many members over the years. I benefit from learning from the educational content and professional conversations and happily ignore the annoying posts.

    I know from visiting with you at past conferences you are a thoughtful, well-informed professional. I'm certain you have much to offer an association such as ours.

    I would challenge you to volunteer on a committee of your interest or run for a board position in which you could guide the direction of the organization and effect positive changes.

    Should you choose not to renew your membership I will miss attending your conference presentations and webinars on Artificial Intelligence specific to our professions.

    I wish you all the best ~ Todd



    ------------------------------
    Todd Harden, MA, CRC, LPC, CLCP, ABVE/F
    Vocational Expert, Certified Life Care Planner, Forensic Vocational Consultant
    todd@hardenconsulting.net
    Burleson, Texas
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Membership Renewal

    Posted 20 days ago
    In our country today, at what point does a comment stop being "political" and just become human caring, compassion, concern?  Being concerned about what is happening to our country and so many vulnerable people is no longer political.





  • 4.  RE: Membership Renewal

    Posted 20 days ago
    Ellen and all:

    Look, we have to be able to discuss political events right now. All need to understand the difference between professional and personal politics. We, as a field, are facing a storm that will hit us on many fronts. And as an organization, we need to face that war and work to protect our field, not only for us but, more importantly, for the people who are served by it. There will undoubtedly be room for IARP to provide substantial and important policy recommendations as we watch this unfold. Change is scary, but the goal is to influence the changes coming, with the aim of protecting services for people with disabilities and our profession. Both go hand in hand. 

    It is foolish to think that what the federal government does will have zero impact on our work as experts. It is foolish to believe that if SSA replaces VEs with software in the hearing process, it won't become an issue in state and federal courts. It's foolish to think that the credentials required by Social Security for vocational experts do not matter in state and federal courts. We are a profession established by the government. We all have an interest in ensuring the survival of our credentialing bodies and one way to do this to have the certifications required by governmental entities. 

    The state/federal VR system is under attack. The Special Education system is under attack. These services are used by many of the people we evaluate, or could be used by people we evaluate. They are services that mediate the impacts of disability and medical conditions (I shared some fact sheets last week). 

    I think it's fine to say we care about people with disabilities and we don't want to see them hurt or harmed. Most of us are trained counselors, and having empathy and concern is normal. That should not be political. 

    While I agree SSVE should not be the main topic on the Forensic listerv (and I do not see SSVE work discussed frequently on this listerv), most understand how SSVE work is related to forensic work. AND, more importantly, SSVE is where many of our new professionals in the field get their first experience testifying. They learn to state their opinions and defend their opinions. 

    Michelle Aliff Ph.D, CRC, CVE, CLCP
    Vocational Consultant
    (503) 516-9863 (phone)
    (817) 796-1478 (fax)





  • 5.  RE: Membership Renewal

    Posted 20 days ago

    Dear Colleagues,

    As President of the American Board of Vocational Experts (ABVE), I have followed the recent conversation with interest and respect for the thoughtful perspectives shared. Our professional community benefits most when dialogue remains grounded in evidence-based practice, collegial respect, and the shared goal of serving individuals with disabilities.

    Professional listservs are strongest when they encourage constructive exchange and maintain focus on vocational and forensic practice. Precision in language matters-our work and testimony depend on clarity, objectivity, and measured communication.

    Board certification through ABVE reflects a commitment to professional excellence, ethical integrity, and verified competency in vocational and forensic evaluation. Credentialing helps ensure consistency, fosters public confidence, and strengthens our credibility in both administrative and legal arenas.

    As our field navigates complex challenges, from evolving technology to policy shifts, it is essential that we remain unified by professional standards and a commitment to service rather than divided by personal or political interpretations.

    Thank you to all who continue to contribute thoughtfully to advancing the field.

    Respectfully,

    Maria A. Babinetz, MS, CRC, ABVE/D, IPEC, CCM, CDMS

    Licensed Professional Counselor – PA

    Licensed Rehabilitation Counselor – NJ

    Signature Rehabilitation Services, LLC



    ------------------------------
    Maria Babinetz
    Vocational Rehabilitation Expert
    maria.babinetz@signaturerehab.com
    Lansdale, PA United States
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Membership Renewal

    Posted 20 days ago
    Hello Maria, 

    I very much appreciate your response. As many may know, ABVE certifications are also accepted by SSA alongside the CRC. I could not agree more than protecting credentials and certifications is of the utmost importance in these current times. 

    I look forward to working with you and ABVE on the challenges that lay ahead for our field. It is going to take the entire village to push back on these issues. 

    Michelle Aliff Ph.D, CRC, CVE, CLCP
    Vocational Consultant
    (503) 516-9863 (phone)
    (817) 796-1478 (fax)





  • 7.  RE: Membership Renewal

    Posted 20 days ago

    Hey, Chris, 

    I totally understand where you are coming from on this from a cost analysis perspective. I also know you and I and pretty much everyone else who has responded serve in leadership capacities in IARP either currently or in the recent past, and we know how much time, effort, and tenacity goes into managing such a large organization that spans so many areas of the field. 

    I think the organization name being the blanket, "Rehabilitation Professionals," makes us a cohesive group. Breaking our practice areas down into Sections is the strategic part, though, especially because they all hold hands and overlap in so many ways. In saying that, I am also a member of ABVE, because Vocational Expert work is my main wheelhouse, and I gain things from that organization that I may or may not get from IARP. 

    From a personal perspective, the main value I find from IARP is the relationships. I have learned so much and been connected with so many colleagues, including you, that I would have likely not known without being an involved member. I look forward to seeing everyone every year at the conferences since so many of you have also become friends. Professionally, every job I have ever had has come along directly or indirectly because of my IARP membership and involvement. The annual membership fee is a cost of doing business that is well worth it to me. 

    I hope you will continue your membership. I appreciate your unique viewpoint and contributions. 

    -Tricia



    ------------------------------
    Tricia Oakes, M.Ed., CRC, CLCP
    IARP Forensic Section Chair
    IARP of the Carolinas Member-at-Large
    Oakes Vocational Consulting & Life Care Planning
    tricia@oakesvoc.com
    Fort Mill, South Carolina, USA
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Membership Renewal

    Posted 20 days ago

    Christopher,

     

    Sadly, I admit that you are correct.  The forensic listserve thrived in its early years (2005-2015) when it was a great way of connecting with others, sharing ideas, resources and methods and there was spirited discussion, banter, and even jokes.  Now it is all but defunct.  This was the result of a few individuals hijacking the discussions and berating and even insulting others' opinions because they happened to be different than their own.  It was almost a mirror of what was going on with social media nationwide.  I personally was a targeted and withdrew from participating (the RehabPro went on to publish an article attacking my firm by a non-member – the same ruthless intimidation).

     

    So there are problems and they remained unaddressed.

     

    Enrique N. Vega, MS, CRC

    Rehabilitation Consultant

    Disability Management Specialist

    28047 Dorothy Drive, Ste. 201

    Agoura Hills, CA 91301

    (818) 346-3300 Ph.

    (818) 346-3322 Fx.

    Email: enrique@accesswork.net

     

     






  • 9.  RE: Membership Renewal

    Posted 20 days ago

    Hello,

    I appreciate everyone's candor and comments regarding Chris' original message.

    Chris, I am sorry you feel as though IARP does not provide enough member benefits.  If there is anything specific you feel we should offer, please reach out to me and I would be happy to chat with you further.  We are open to new ideas and encourage suggestions.

    I echo Todd's comments and encourage you to volunteer at the chapter, section or committee level and provide input on how we can continue to grow IARP and support rehabilitation professionals throughout the country.

    In this time of uncertainty, we as professionals need to stick together and support one another. 

    Enjoy your evening.

    Best, 

    Erin



    ------------------------------
    Erin Bailey
    Sr. Vocational Consultant
    erin.bailey@crc-s.com
    Longmeadow, MA United States
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Membership Renewal

    Posted 19 days ago

    There used to be 10 or more posts per day to the IARP Forensic Listserv.  These were serious (sometimes humorous) give and take exchanges, sometimes with dozens of voices on individual topics- how do I do this, why, when, what if, where do I look...

     

    Now, I find myself not so convinced that the disparity relates to the unproductive or fractious voices , or whether instead it relates to the tide going out- at least in terms of number of Rehabbers and newness of remaining Rehabbers.  I also wonder whether the change relates to the same thing that seems to be changing in the social fabric of the entire country.  Maybe something about us is changing.

     

    At least among the old timers, I wonder whether we remember just how strong were the bonds and the returns from membership back then, and are just waiting around to see whether the lion will go back to roaring again.

     

    Steve Bast, MHS, CVE, CDMS, FVE, ABVE/D, IPEC, CCM, EA

    Westwind Consulting, Inc.

     






  • 11.  RE: Membership Renewal

    Posted 19 days ago
    Steve, I really appreciate this response.  A number of years ago, I totally relied on the Forensic discussion group when I first started my practice.  I read EVERY post eagerly because I was always learning from what my colleagues had to share.  lots on how people did what they did which I found enormously helpful.  I'm actually pretty sad that that discussion group seems to be on life support.  

    I got involved at the section and big board levels and that is where I really formed close relationships with folks I'm still in touch with and where I really put together a pretty amazing group of folks that I consult with on cases to this day.  Conferences are also where I formed/strengthened those relationships.  And that continues to this day!  

    Chris, I was very saddened to hear of your experience.  I would also echo what Todd said about getting involved in leadership - that was a game changer for me.  And if you could provide some concrete needs/solutions, that could be helpful.  

    Have a good evening all.

    Katherine






    Katherine S. Dunlap, MS, LCPC, CRC, CLCP
    Dunlap Rehabilitation Services LLC
    PO Box 1826
    Livingston, MT 59047
    she/her
    406-222-0814
    866-354-9411 fax
    dunlaprehab@gmail.com

    Electronic Disclosure Statement: This e-mail is NOT ENCRYPTED. If you are communicating about a client, please do NOT place the person's name or personal information in the e-mail or subject line but use non-descriptive identifiers since this is an unsecured form of communication. Any communication regarding a client is considered work product and will become part of the file. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately and remove the information from all electronic and hard copy sources. Storing, printing, or disseminating this e-mail to other parties is prohibited unless authorized by the sender.






  • 12.  RE: Membership Renewal

    Posted 19 days ago
    Very well said, Steve! 

    I did notice something maybe germane.  With the SSVE listserv beginnings some people said they would only participate if the forum was closed, fearing that attorneys could lurk and use stuff against them. 

    But as traffic on the Forensic diminished I noticed more calls and emails coming directly from  people. Folks feared that if they posted on forensic, opposing VE on a subject case or in general (as a "competitor") would "use" what was said against them or transmit whatever to attorneys in future cases as maybe a "weakness" to exploit. I don't recall seeing alleged "stupid questions" over the years. But people fear that and don't always trust colleagues they "compete" with in their region. 
    So SSVEs fear attorneys and Forensic members fear colleagues slipping stuff to attorneys. Neither has ever made sense to me since I always assumed that anything anyone ever said anywhere could be used against you and that you simply would not say or ask what you could not potentially defend.

    --
    Scott T. Stipe
    (503) 807-2668





  • 13.  RE: Membership Renewal

    Posted 19 days ago

    Erin, Scott, Michelle, Katherine, Enrique, and colleagues,

    Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to respond. My intent remains the same, to advocate for transparency, professionalism, and renewed collaboration.

    Erin, As someone who served as Chair of VRTS, I can confirm that volunteer enthusiasm is not the issue-organizational support is. During my tenure, leadership engagement and operational infrastructure were minimal. I was encouraged to "keep trying," but without structural backing the section ultimately merged into Rehabilitation Case Management and Transition Services because no one else had the capacity or direction to sustain it. Encouraging members to "reach out" or "volunteer" will not rebuild confidence unless defined systems of support are in place. A virtual town hall to hear broad member feedback would be a constructive and much-needed first step.

    Scott, I respectfully disagree that these concerns are matters of personal mastery or individual perspective. When long-standing members describe an organization as stagnant or inaccessible, that indicates systemic problems, not personal disinterest. Member value depends on clear communication, measurable engagement, and relevant education. Your historical insights are valuable, but I encourage framing them in ways that invite collaboration rather than alienate participation.

    Michelle, Policy discussions are appropriate when they affect professional practice, provided they are presented with restraint and focus. However, when critiques are met with personal characterizations, it discourages engagement. Being called "foolish," combined with assumptions about others' motives, feels dismissive and contributes to a culture of hesitation. I ask that we return to evidence-based dialogue that welcomes diverse perspectives, including those outside the SSVE context.

    Katherine, I appreciate your empathy and thoughtful reflection. Your comments highlight what many members hope to restore: meaningful peer exchange and professional learning. To that end, I recommend:

    1. A moderated discussion series on case methodology, ethics, and data transparency with balanced participation from early-career and senior practitioners.

    2. Quarterly open-forum sessions where section chairs collect and share member priorities for training and resource development.

    3. Regional collaboration groups-virtual or hybrid-focused on consultation and networking, apart from chapter politics or local competition, which often hinder open sharing among professionals who work in overlapping markets.

    Enrique. I value your insight and candor. Methodological critique is healthiest when both perspectives can be heard and defended in the same space. The upcoming AREA conference in Providence will include a debate-style session on methodological approaches. I believe your participation-or that of your firm-would add real substance and balance to that discussion.

    Our field is strongest when dialogue is factual, inclusive, and transparent. My hope is that this conversation results in tangible improvements rather than continued fragmentation.

    Again, I welcome any rebuttal points to my comments above.

    Christopher Skerritt







  • 14.  RE: Membership Renewal

    Posted 19 days ago
    Amen brother.

    You said what needed to be said.  In a long, long  time.  

    Sent from my iPhone





  • 15.  RE: Membership Renewal

    Posted 19 days ago
    I certainly share some of your concerns and appreciate that you find my insights valuable. Thank you for inviting rebuttal. I must pass. I  don't see how I can rebut what are essentially another's feelings (as in your feeling that I  somehow am "alienating collaboration" here). You feel what you feel and that is fine. 

    We are all very different yet similar and become an "us" here. In my view you have the power to address anything going on or lacking within IARP with your participation and, if interested,l eadership. So, I hope you stay on and seek to improve upon and change what may need changing.

    --
    Scott T. Stipe
    (503) 807-2668





  • 16.  RE: Membership Renewal

    Posted 19 days ago
    Edited by J. Matthew Sims 19 days ago

    Several years ago I became much more involved in discussions, as at the time there was someone in particular who was ... abusive in some ways, and I am old and I just don't care if I stick my neck out these days. I know of many who felt intimidated to post questions because of this person who is no longer a member here. I continue to receive personal messages from people who do not wish to post here but remember when I was much more active and wanted some assistance here and there. I admit things have gotten more quiet since then. 

    I would formally like to invite people to post here. IARP has a fantastic system to do so.

    As a part of my encouragement, please feel free to mention my name publicly or to ask me questions - even personally. I have worked on an average 120 cases in personal injury a year for 25+ years in AZ, UT, NV and MN, about 50/50 plaintiff vs defense, and I did SSVE work, I do hedonic rebuttals, I created Arizona's spousal maintenance (alimony) calculator, and I am also an economist who has published and presented in the forensic economics area particularly in the household services value area. 

    I have only one criticism of IARP in that the RehabPro published a couple articles that were primarily economics on household service value from 2 authors who could never have been published in an economic journal. It's okay to do something like this as an organization/publisher, but only if the reviewers go outside and hire an economist who has published in that particular area to also be a reviewer. I don't think that was done here. I had to have this happen to me (as an example) - the Journal of Legal Economics hired a published VE to help review an article of mine, regarding Specific Vocational Preparation (skill levels) in the use of estimating an unskilled wage for valuing household services now that the ORS has new data available - the field of economics had never been able to account for skill level before with household services. 

    My motivations these days are to give back to the community. I've volunteered with the State of AZ, and I've worked on publishing and presenting, and I've been a Board member of AREA for years, and I'm an IARP listserve poster. Anyways, ask questions, be vulnerable (I'm actually a die hard introvert ...), and go for it! I heard someone say 'you will only be older ... ' so take the opportunity you have today!



    ------------------------------
    J. Matthew Sims, MC, MS
    Vocational Economist
    sims@simsandwhite.com
    Flagstaff, AZ United States
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: Membership Renewal

    Posted 19 days ago

    FYI I need to update my pic because I have a beard now. 



    ------------------------------
    J. Matthew Sims, MC, MS
    Vocational Economist
    sims@simsandwhite.com
    Flagstaff, AZ United States
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: Membership Renewal

    Posted 18 days ago

    Hello Christopher -

    I have struggled with this very question as well and given the sub chapters with additional fees, the price is really getting up there. I contemplated the same and chose to see how I can take the information from the other organizations I belong to and apply it to this professional organization. I find some of the sub chapters helpful in my practice. 

    Foremost, what is important for organizations is engagement. If members feel engaged then membership sustains. As you can imagine engagement is multi-faceted. 



    ------------------------------
    Jeff Kiel, Ph.D., CRC, CCM, CVE, CEAS, FVE, CLCP, ABVE/D
    Vocational Solutions, LLC
    Managing Owner
    Ph.D. Psychology - Specialization in Industrial-Organizational Psychology
    vocexpertkiel@vocsolutions.net
    210-852-5837
    San Antonio, TX
    ------------------------------



  • 19.  RE: Membership Renewal

    Posted 18 days ago

    Jeff, the cost/benefit thing for me has always seemed simple. Complex if I overthink it. Many of us have an incredible number of letters after our names. The benefit of some of these are nebulous, but we shelled out a lot initially and often, without reservation, re-up. Associations strike me similarly. I always think in terms of hours and professional rates. How much do I have to work/bill to pay for this bill. Now I know it is more complex than this in terms of what one nets out of an hour billed, and even more complex if you have employees like I always did also billing. But setting those complexities aside, membership is about same as billing an hour or so.  That all gets murky since there are so very many of those charges for this and that cert or association fee in total. But even when you add total up, it is only like a couple days billable. So, I told myself that so long as I feel I got a little nugget or two last year it is worth it.

    The CEU thing is something else yet part of the analysis (but that gets complex too because you usually can use a CEU with multiple certs and trying to target true cost, whew).  Online CEUs cost peanuts and are high quality these days. And painless. I personally hate hotels and airports, almost never sight see, and don't much care for travel or being away from family (wife never wants to go, boring). Obviously, some dig it and conferences become vacations that are blurred and kind of, sort of deductible. The online CEUs can be done in bits. So, my conferences declined. The refrain I hear about conferences is more the relationships and networking stuff and less about the topics/CEU. The per unit CEU cost via conference is maybe ten times more than online. And email/ phone, case staff calls, social media, forums do 90% of what the in-person does for me. But I understand there are individual differences.

    I bet all associations are dealing with this stuff

    It is all very complex. I am close with a buck, a Scot and a Scott. To me, bowing out of IARP seemed (and weirdly still seems) penny wise and pound foolish.



    ------------------------------
    Scott T. Stipe, MA, CRC, IPEC, D/ABVE
    Certified Rehabilitation Counselor
    Board Certified Vocational Expert
    Scott Stipe & Associates, Inc.
    DBA Career Directions Northwest
    4110 SE Hawthorne Blvd
    #188
    Portland, Oregon, 97214
    (503)807-2668
    email: sstipecrc@gmail.com
    ------------------------------