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Jennifer to answer your question, yes.  It does come into play in employment law, but also in any case (personal injury, etc.)  I have with someone over 55.   The plaintiff attorney will always paint a picture that no one would hire someone over 55. The question is what facts and data as an expert do we have to address the aging concern.  In some industries (like ours) it is a benefit to have more years of experience. In others it could be detrimental.

Michelle McBroom Weiss, MA, CRC, CCM, NCC, MSCC, ABVE/D, IPEC

5543 Edmondson Pike, Suite 128

Nashville, TN 37211

mcbroomweiss@mcbroomweiss.com

(P) 615-834-0186

(F) 615-831-5274

(C) 615-308-6395

Michelle: Like many facts or evidence, another perspective always exists. That's why one expert gets the defense side and plaintiff for the other. Agism is a silent discrimination. I do a fair amount of employment law cases, both D & P sides.

Grand Experiment: I thought that I would "test the waters" on MYSELF on AGE DISCRIMINATION last January 2022.Before VOC-EXPERT, I was a career advisor on faculty for 4.5 years at a Washington State College (1978-1981). My Masters was 1977. Do the math, either I'm like Doogie Houser, MD TV fiction of a young man as doctor,1992-93) or a regular person at 25 with a masters. Add 45 years + 25 assumed ages for master's degree (2022) you see that the "applicant" (me) was age 70. Don't need to ask Date of Birth, just graduation dates for most, not all folks.  Don't need to ask the weatherman which way the wind blows.

I applied for 3 openings at the University of Washington (Seattle where is live half the time) two at under grad and one grad school admissions. NO RESPONSE, complete silence.

Bellevue College had two openings, Career Advisor. Also applied and NO RESPONSE, complete silence.  This is mostly a 2-year college with some 4-year BA/BS programs.

I sent my 7-page Curriculum Vita. It is obvious I am a "Senior Citizen". So, if not an age issue, why not even a hello and goodbye, a letter, an email, or any form of rejection?

I had to list the years of experience for the SAME occupational position at the State college I worked for. I look at the WEBSITES on the colleges and guess what I see? Color photos of staff doing this work that could be my own children, young 25-35. Hummmm?

Now don't take my long answer as it happens ALL the time.... Numerous factors are in play. It makes me look under ever leaf now on my employment law cases, esp. age. I ask now for age listings of current staff and the Boss too. HR has that data. I ask about tenure by same class of workers. I ask about racial and gender too. That's our job to be objective and not performing our work like a one-trick-pony act.

On a final note, I now think, as an EXPERT in a trial, being older with mostly gray hair increases my credibility!  It's hard to say an older "well-seasoned" expert has no experience to offer a valid/reliable opinion. So sometimes, old is better? 

John F. Berg, M.Ed., CRC, ABVE/D, IPEC

Vocational Consulting Inc.

3515 SW Alaska Street

Top Floor

Seattle, WA.  98126

206-852-6559

Jennifer to answer your question, yes.  It does come into play in employment law, but also in any case (personal injury, etc.)  I have with someone over 55.   The plaintiff attorney will always paint a picture that no one would hire someone over 55. The question is what facts and data as an expert do we have to address the aging concern.  In some industries (like ours) it is a benefit to have more years of experience. In others it could be detrimental.

Michelle McBroom Weiss, MA, CRC, CCM, NCC, MSCC, ABVE/D, IPEC

5543 Edmondson Pike, Suite 128

Nashville, TN 37211

mcbroomweiss@mcbroomweiss.com

(P) 615-834-0186

(F) 615-831-5274

(C) 615-308-6395

Michelle: Like many facts or evidence, another perspective always exists. That's why one expert gets the defense side and plaintiff for the other. Agism is a silent discrimination. I do a fair amount of employment law cases, both D & P sides.

Grand Experiment: I thought that I would "test the waters" on MYSELF on AGE DISCRIMINATION last January 2022.Before VOC-EXPERT, I was a career advisor on faculty for 4.5 years at a Washington State College (1978-1981). My Masters was 1977. Do the math, either I'm like Doogie Houser, MD TV fiction of a young man as doctor,1992-93) or a regular person at 25 with a masters. Add 45 years + 25 assumed ages for master's degree (2022) you see that the "applicant" (me) was age 70. Don't need to ask Date of Birth, just graduation dates for most, not all folks.  Don't need to ask the weatherman which way the wind blows.

I applied for 3 openings at the University of Washington (Seattle where is live half the time) two at under grad and one grad school admissions. NO RESPONSE, complete silence.

Bellevue College had two openings, Career Advisor. Also applied and NO RESPONSE, complete silence.  This is mostly a 2-year college with some 4-year BA/BS programs.

I sent my 7-page Curriculum Vita. It is obvious I am a "Senior Citizen". So, if not an age issue, why not even a hello and goodbye, a letter, an email, or any form of rejection?

I had to list the years of experience for the SAME occupational position at the State college I worked for. I look at the WEBSITES on the colleges and guess what I see? Color photos of staff doing this work that could be my own children, young 25-35. Hummmm?

Now don't take my long answer as it happens ALL the time.... Numerous factors are in play. It makes me look under ever leaf now on my employment law cases, esp. age. I ask now for age listings of current staff and the Boss too. HR has that data. I ask about tenure by same class of workers. I ask about racial and gender too. That's our job to be objective and not performing our work like a one-trick-pony act.

On a final note, I now think, as an EXPERT in a trial, being older with mostly gray hair increases my credibility!  It's hard to say an older "well-seasoned" expert has no experience to offer a valid/reliable opinion. So sometimes, old is better? 

John F. Berg, M.Ed., CRC, ABVE/D, IPEC

Vocational Consulting Inc.

3515 SW Alaska Street

Top Floor

Seattle, WA.  98126

206-852-6559

Jennifer to answer your question, yes.  It does come into play in employment law, but also in any case (personal injury, etc.)  I have with someone over 55.   The plaintiff attorney will always paint a picture that no one would hire someone over 55. The question is what facts and data as an expert do we have to address the aging concern.  In some industries (like ours) it is a benefit to have more years of experience. In others it could be detrimental.

Michelle McBroom Weiss, MA, CRC, CCM, NCC, MSCC, ABVE/D, IPEC

5543 Edmondson Pike, Suite 128

Nashville, TN 37211

mcbroomweiss@mcbroomweiss.com

(P) 615-834-0186

(F) 615-831-5274

(C) 615-308-6395

I use that as well.

Michelle McBroom Weiss, MA, CRC, CCM, NCC, MSCC, ABVE/D, IPEC

5543 Edmondson Pike, Suite 128

Nashville, TN 37211

mcbroomweiss@mcbroomweiss.com

(P) 615-834-0186

(F) 615-831-5274

(C) 615-308-6395

Michelle: Like many facts or evidence, another perspective always exists. That's why one expert gets the defense side and plaintiff for the other. Agism is a silent discrimination. I do a fair amount of employment law cases, both D & P sides.

Grand Experiment: I thought that I would "test the waters" on MYSELF on AGE DISCRIMINATION last January 2022.Before VOC-EXPERT, I was a career advisor on faculty for 4.5 years at a Washington State College (1978-1981). My Masters was 1977. Do the math, either I'm like Doogie Houser, MD TV fiction of a young man as doctor,1992-93) or a regular person at 25 with a masters. Add 45 years + 25 assumed ages for master's degree (2022) you see that the "applicant" (me) was age 70. Don't need to ask Date of Birth, just graduation dates for most, not all folks.  Don't need to ask the weatherman which way the wind blows.

I applied for 3 openings at the University of Washington (Seattle where is live half the time) two at under grad and one grad school admissions. NO RESPONSE, complete silence.

Bellevue College had two openings, Career Advisor. Also applied and NO RESPONSE, complete silence.  This is mostly a 2-year college with some 4-year BA/BS programs.

I sent my 7-page Curriculum Vita. It is obvious I am a "Senior Citizen". So, if not an age issue, why not even a hello and goodbye, a letter, an email, or any form of rejection?

I had to list the years of experience for the SAME occupational position at the State college I worked for. I look at the WEBSITES on the colleges and guess what I see? Color photos of staff doing this work that could be my own children, young 25-35. Hummmm?

Now don't take my long answer as it happens ALL the time.... Numerous factors are in play. It makes me look under ever leaf now on my employment law cases, esp. age. I ask now for age listings of current staff and the Boss too. HR has that data. I ask about tenure by same class of workers. I ask about racial and gender too. That's our job to be objective and not performing our work like a one-trick-pony act.

On a final note, I now think, as an EXPERT in a trial, being older with mostly gray hair increases my credibility!  It's hard to say an older "well-seasoned" expert has no experience to offer a valid/reliable opinion. So sometimes, old is better? 

John F. Berg, M.Ed., CRC, ABVE/D, IPEC

Vocational Consulting Inc.

3515 SW Alaska Street

Top Floor

Seattle, WA.  98126

206-852-6559

Jennifer to answer your question, yes.  It does come into play in employment law, but also in any case (personal injury, etc.)  I have with someone over 55.   The plaintiff attorney will always paint a picture that no one would hire someone over 55. The question is what facts and data as an expert do we have to address the aging concern.  In some industries (like ours) it is a benefit to have more years of experience. In others it could be detrimental.

Michelle McBroom Weiss, MA, CRC, CCM, NCC, MSCC, ABVE/D, IPEC

5543 Edmondson Pike, Suite 128

Nashville, TN 37211

mcbroomweiss@mcbroomweiss.com

(P) 615-834-0186

(F) 615-831-5274

(C) 615-308-6395

Michelle: Like many facts or evidence, another perspective always exists. That's why one expert gets the defense side and plaintiff for the other. Agism is a silent discrimination. I do a fair amount of employment law cases, both D & P sides.

Grand Experiment: I thought that I would "test the waters" on MYSELF on AGE DISCRIMINATION last January 2022.Before VOC-EXPERT, I was a career advisor on faculty for 4.5 years at a Washington State College (1978-1981). My Masters was 1977. Do the math, either I'm like Doogie Houser, MD TV fiction of a young man as doctor,1992-93) or a regular person at 25 with a masters. Add 45 years + 25 assumed ages for master's degree (2022) you see that the "applicant" (me) was age 70. Don't need to ask Date of Birth, just graduation dates for most, not all folks.  Don't need to ask the weatherman which way the wind blows.

I applied for 3 openings at the University of Washington (Seattle where is live half the time) two at under grad and one grad school admissions. NO RESPONSE, complete silence.

Bellevue College had two openings, Career Advisor. Also applied and NO RESPONSE, complete silence.  This is mostly a 2-year college with some 4-year BA/BS programs.

I sent my 7-page Curriculum Vita. It is obvious I am a "Senior Citizen". So, if not an age issue, why not even a hello and goodbye, a letter, an email, or any form of rejection?

I had to list the years of experience for the SAME occupational position at the State college I worked for. I look at the WEBSITES on the colleges and guess what I see? Color photos of staff doing this work that could be my own children, young 25-35. Hummmm?

Now don't take my long answer as it happens ALL the time.... Numerous factors are in play. It makes me look under ever leaf now on my employment law cases, esp. age. I ask now for age listings of current staff and the Boss too. HR has that data. I ask about tenure by same class of workers. I ask about racial and gender too. That's our job to be objective and not performing our work like a one-trick-pony act.

On a final note, I now think, as an EXPERT in a trial, being older with mostly gray hair increases my credibility!  It's hard to say an older "well-seasoned" expert has no experience to offer a valid/reliable opinion. So sometimes, old is better? 

John F. Berg, M.Ed., CRC, ABVE/D, IPEC

Vocational Consulting Inc.

3515 SW Alaska Street

Top Floor

Seattle, WA.  98126

206-852-6559

Jennifer to answer your question, yes.  It does come into play in employment law, but also in any case (personal injury, etc.)  I have with someone over 55.   The plaintiff attorney will always paint a picture that no one would hire someone over 55. The question is what facts and data as an expert do we have to address the aging concern.  In some industries (like ours) it is a benefit to have more years of experience. In others it could be detrimental.

Michelle McBroom Weiss, MA, CRC, CCM, NCC, MSCC, ABVE/D, IPEC

5543 Edmondson Pike, Suite 128

Nashville, TN 37211

mcbroomweiss@mcbroomweiss.com

(P) 615-834-0186

(F) 615-831-5274

(C) 615-308-6395

Scott: If I was a plaintiff expert on a case with someone relying on this chart as evidence that old folks are doing dandy, I would in cross examination say something like,

1. The chart is valid and from a reliable source.
2. The data represents only ages by occupational classifications
3. The chart does not represent a person, absent from the labor market due to (Accident, illness, helping a family member for a couple years, etc.) who THEN TRIES TO FIND LIKE-KIND work and needs to be seen by a NEW employer. They are now a new applicant being vetted and the new employer only sees an older applicant (By date of high school or college completion or app. showing last date worked) and has not worked for some period of time "to be discussed at interview". I think they lost their competitive capacity to obtain work in part due to age.
4. Agism from my review, cannot be detected by simple examination of age by occupations of those who maybe worked for ABC Company since before they were about 40 and now are 65 with 25 years tenure and a golden parachute awaiting retirement someday. The chart does not explain any other factors or variables.
5. In sum, the CHART is fine for some purposes as a demographic exhibit but fails to explain why "Joe" cannot seem to get the job he appears to qualify for at age XX.

Numerous factors are at play in obtaining work. No just a degree, experience, and age combined.

6. The varied views and ultimate opinion on this list do represent why we get hired often to address the opposing experts Methodology and the veracity of the data or evidence one relies on. Then the magic of explaining that in front of a jury or judge at a bench trial or depo. Our verbal skills and likeability while explaining opinions is very important to be believed vs. the opposing expert.

JOHN F. BERG

Vocational Consulting Inc.

Michelle: Like many facts or evidence, another perspective always exists. That's why one expert gets the defense side and plaintiff for the other. Agism is a silent discrimination. I do a fair amount of employment law cases, both D & P sides.

Grand Experiment: I thought that I would "test the waters" on MYSELF on AGE DISCRIMINATION last January 2022.Before VOC-EXPERT, I was a career advisor on faculty for 4.5 years at a Washington State College (1978-1981). My Masters was 1977. Do the math, either I'm like Doogie Houser, MD TV fiction of a young man as doctor,1992-93) or a regular person at 25 with a masters. Add 45 years + 25 assumed ages for master's degree (2022) you see that the "applicant" (me) was age 70. Don't need to ask Date of Birth, just graduation dates for most, not all folks.  Don't need to ask the weatherman which way the wind blows.

I applied for 3 openings at the University of Washington (Seattle where is live half the time) two at under grad and one grad school admissions. NO RESPONSE, complete silence.

Bellevue College had two openings, Career Advisor. Also applied and NO RESPONSE, complete silence.  This is mostly a 2-year college with some 4-year BA/BS programs.

I sent my 7-page Curriculum Vita. It is obvious I am a "Senior Citizen". So, if not an age issue, why not even a hello and goodbye, a letter, an email, or any form of rejection?

I had to list the years of experience for the SAME occupational position at the State college I worked for. I look at the WEBSITES on the colleges and guess what I see? Color photos of staff doing this work that could be my own children, young 25-35. Hummmm?

Now don't take my long answer as it happens ALL the time.... Numerous factors are in play. It makes me look under ever leaf now on my employment law cases, esp. age. I ask now for age listings of current staff and the Boss too. HR has that data. I ask about tenure by same class of workers. I ask about racial and gender too. That's our job to be objective and not performing our work like a one-trick-pony act.

On a final note, I now think, as an EXPERT in a trial, being older with mostly gray hair increases my credibility!  It's hard to say an older "well-seasoned" expert has no experience to offer a valid/reliable opinion. So sometimes, old is better? 

John F. Berg, M.Ed., CRC, ABVE/D, IPEC

Vocational Consulting Inc.

3515 SW Alaska Street

Top Floor

Seattle, WA.  98126

206-852-6559

Jennifer to answer your question, yes.  It does come into play in employment law, but also in any case (personal injury, etc.)  I have with someone over 55.   The plaintiff attorney will always paint a picture that no one would hire someone over 55. The question is what facts and data as an expert do we have to address the aging concern.  In some industries (like ours) it is a benefit to have more years of experience. In others it could be detrimental.

Michelle McBroom Weiss, MA, CRC, CCM, NCC, MSCC, ABVE/D, IPEC

5543 Edmondson Pike, Suite 128

Nashville, TN 37211

mcbroomweiss@mcbroomweiss.com

(P) 615-834-0186

(F) 615-831-5274

(C) 615-308-6395

Michelle: Like many facts or evidence, another perspective always exists. That's why one expert gets the defense side and plaintiff for the other. Agism is a silent discrimination. I do a fair amount of employment law cases, both D & P sides.

Grand Experiment: I thought that I would "test the waters" on MYSELF on AGE DISCRIMINATION last January 2022.Before VOC-EXPERT, I was a career advisor on faculty for 4.5 years at a Washington State College (1978-1981). My Masters was 1977. Do the math, either I'm like Doogie Houser, MD TV fiction of a young man as doctor,1992-93) or a regular person at 25 with a masters. Add 45 years + 25 assumed ages for master's degree (2022) you see that the "applicant" (me) was age 70. Don't need to ask Date of Birth, just graduation dates for most, not all folks.  Don't need to ask the weatherman which way the wind blows.

I applied for 3 openings at the University of Washington (Seattle where is live half the time) two at under grad and one grad school admissions. NO RESPONSE, complete silence.

Bellevue College had two openings, Career Advisor. Also applied and NO RESPONSE, complete silence.  This is mostly a 2-year college with some 4-year BA/BS programs.

I sent my 7-page Curriculum Vita. It is obvious I am a "Senior Citizen". So, if not an age issue, why not even a hello and goodbye, a letter, an email, or any form of rejection?

I had to list the years of experience for the SAME occupational position at the State college I worked for. I look at the WEBSITES on the colleges and guess what I see? Color photos of staff doing this work that could be my own children, young 25-35. Hummmm?

Now don't take my long answer as it happens ALL the time.... Numerous factors are in play. It makes me look under ever leaf now on my employment law cases, esp. age. I ask now for age listings of current staff and the Boss too. HR has that data. I ask about tenure by same class of workers. I ask about racial and gender too. That's our job to be objective and not performing our work like a one-trick-pony act.

On a final note, I now think, as an EXPERT in a trial, being older with mostly gray hair increases my credibility!  It's hard to say an older "well-seasoned" expert has no experience to offer a valid/reliable opinion. So sometimes, old is better? 

John F. Berg, M.Ed., CRC, ABVE/D, IPEC

Vocational Consulting Inc.

3515 SW Alaska Street

Top Floor

Seattle, WA.  98126

206-852-6559

Jennifer to answer your question, yes.  It does come into play in employment law, but also in any case (personal injury, etc.)  I have with someone over 55.   The plaintiff attorney will always paint a picture that no one would hire someone over 55. The question is what facts and data as an expert do we have to address the aging concern.  In some industries (like ours) it is a benefit to have more years of experience. In others it could be detrimental.

Michelle McBroom Weiss, MA, CRC, CCM, NCC, MSCC, ABVE/D, IPEC

5543 Edmondson Pike, Suite 128

Nashville, TN 37211

mcbroomweiss@mcbroomweiss.com

(P) 615-834-0186

(F) 615-831-5274

(C) 615-308-6395