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  • 1.  Impact of incarceration on access to professional employment

    Posted 06-11-2024 15:49
    I have a “Wrongful Conviction” case with a 5+ year prison incarceration served before successful appeal. BS Degree + 6-years engineer experience; In a state prison so out of labor market until winning an appeal for conviction overturned.

    Has anyone found reliable publications on the impact of return to work and or wage loss due to felony convictions? I am needing to address both lost wages during the prison sentence and what degree of difficulty in competitive interviews and “obtaining” professional work.


    Thanks for your help!

    John F. Berg, M.Ed, CRC, ABVE/D, IPEC
    Vocational Consulting Inc.
    Seattle, WA

    206-852-6559


  • 2.  RE: Impact of incarceration on access to professional employment

    Posted 06-11-2024 17:01
    My focus would be to first LMS a general absense in not only engineering but also the labor matket, employed at anything,  in general for a > 5 yr period along with BS x years ago. My hunch is that in engineering( or any highly skilled, rapidly changing field, the individual would be employable at a similar level than would a new grad, but perhaps not with what is now current and lacking. 

    Then B I would go back and LMS employers as to why the absense. In other words their answers might change if they were thinking absense was due to child care, family stuff, travel. 

    Studies are nice if you find something detailed and not too hodgepodge. Most VE, as you and I have discussed, don't much like to do LMS, many despide it, don't want to hire a job developer who likes and excels at it, so they fake and pretend it is "impossible" which is dishonest. It is just plain hard and takes lots of time. Time is money, so big deal. You "win" over the other expert most every time you do LMS and other expert wings it with word salad. Attorneys and TOF eat it up. Hypothesis testing is science
    Scott Stipe
    (503)807-2668





  • 3.  RE: Impact of incarceration on access to professional employment

    Posted 06-11-2024 18:21
    Incarceration would likely have no impact on access to employment for a roofer, but engineers often have to pass background checks, so he would likely be limited to engineering jobs not in defense or aerospace, but might be ok for civil engineering.  





  • 4.  RE: Impact of incarceration on access to professional employment

    Posted 06-12-2024 09:30

    You may want to look more into rehabilitation, such as refreshing his education in engineering. The evaluee could go to a university and talk with a professor there to see what they recommend to catch him up. The wage loss then gets extended through the rehab period, plus there's the costs of college to add on. 



    ------------------------------
    J. Matthew Sims, MC, MS
    Vocational Economist
    sims@simsandwhite.com
    Flagstaff, AZ United States
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Impact of incarceration on access to professional employment

    Posted 06-12-2024 10:28

    I agree with Matt.  I like the use of retraining recommendations for Plaintiffs who have work gaps that they will want to deemphasize, even when it is not technically necessary, as it yields (a) an interval during which to ready themselves for RTW (mentally, culturally, and physically), and (b) a script (that is at least partially true) with which to answer the question: "What have you been doing since you worked at Acme?" 

     

    In terms of resources for trying to statistically quantify the issues, maybe one of these would have something useful...

    https://info.nicic.gov/ces/perspective/correctional

    www.nelp.org/insights-research/resource-guide-criminal-legal-system-work/#_ednref22

     

    -Steve Bast, MHS, CVE, CDMS, FVE, CCM, IPEC, ABVE/D, EA

    www.datapeoplethings.com

     

     






  • 6.  RE: Impact of incarceration on access to professional employment

    Posted 06-13-2024 10:25

    Hey, John.

    I had not realized how long ago it was that I had wrestled with and addressed this type of case.   Great question!  

    I offer a few PDF's here (for the Listserv library as well) that are admittedly somewhat dated.  Nonetheless, the organizations cited, along with the considerations of multiple demographics assist one to see what a dark hole this daunting topic can be, and those sources probably may still offer more info and stats that are contemporary.  Somewhere, at the time that I had written my assessment, I had come across a stat that "universally" (if such is applicable or reliable) one who serves prison time finds an average of 40% loss of income, upon release.  If nothing else, this may help to support that this type of "loss" is real, although the 40% seems low to me.  (And of course, that cite is in a report that I cannot find at the moment.)

    Good luck with this.  The answers that you have already received are ones I will also save for future reference here.  



    ------------------------------
    Bob Paré, MS, CRC, LRC, CDMS, FVE, ABVE/D
    rpare@consultativerehab.com
    Mt. Laurel, NJ. Tel: 609-531-2529
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: Impact of incarceration on access to professional employment

    Posted 06-13-2024 10:46
    John,

    There's very little published out there with regards to a reduction in earnings related to felony convictions that is specific. Many refer to old and vague data with a simplistic percentage reductions, but the variability of that statistic would be tremendous. There is basically no real peer reviewed and published  methodology for us to apply regarding this that I know of. 

    My best understanding is that reduction in earnings relates to three things, inability to return to the same pre-felony occupation (such as a licensed or professional occupation), negative stigma, and loss in years of experience that drives earnings increase especially for someone in their 20s (age-earnings profiles). But if the person was minimum wage before, there would likely be no loss, so a percentage method may not work. I also do not believe that ex-felons who start their own company are in those statistics. 

    I haven't looked at this in a while, but Needham and Shipp published I think a review of what literature is there. I haven't looked at their conclusions in years so I don't know if this is helpful, but it's worth a look. 

    Journal of Forensic Economics 18(2-3), 2005, pp. 187-195

    ©2006 by the National Association of Forensic Economics

    187

    The Impact of Criminal Convictions on Calculations of Lost

    Earnings in Personal Injury and Wrongful Death: Issues for

    Forensic Economics and Vocational Assessment

    Allyn Needham and Shannon Shipp*



    Kind Regards,

    -----------------------------------
    J. Matthew Sims, MC, MS
    Vocational Economist

    Flagstaff Office:
    Sims & White, PLLC
    223 N. San Francisco St., Suite 103
    Flagstaff, Arizona 86001
    o (602) 253-2033
    c (623) 826-4091
    www.simsandwhite.com










  • 8.  RE: Impact of incarceration on access to professional employment

    Posted 06-13-2024 13:36
    Here is what I have learned so far on wrongful conviction/imprisonment cases.

    1. The USA has had an explosion in prison sentences, especially. The last 25-30 years. Perhaps due in part to privatization of prisons. It’s profitable for investors.
    2. Minorities representing a much higher percentages of inmates. My client is white.
    3. The majority of long term prison sentences are with a cohort of less than high school education. Those leaving prison with low educational attainment, and comparing that segment to higher educated feon, is not useful or valid for those with a BS/BA.
    4. The key problem of an educated felon is the percentage of vetting for job applications that are performed. I have found the % of vetting that is much higher than assumed for higher paying occupations. The net result is employers saying tactfully, “Thank You for your application but we have made another candidate selection.”
    5. No or inadequate data exist for my client to address or link to peer review findings. The research I have read to date is composite findings and not specific to age, ed., race, type of felon. This is the proverbial N-1.
    6. The length of job search is higher that a “normal” applicant, no matter the client background. Explaining what happened for X # of years is a poisoning effect to be a viable competitive candidate.
    7. Most of the research found is old, 2000-2012.
    8. All research I have read does support the hypothesis of longer time to find work, lower wages that an average similar situated employee, lost wages during incarceration, more periods of unemployment, therefore, lifetime reduction of wage earning capacity.

    This is my first Wrongful Imprisonment case. I have not performed a single “wrongful imprisonment” case since doing forensic assessments since 1982. I assume to Toal number of cases available is very small, perhaps smaller than any other type of assignment Voc. Experts get. First, one must have a case appealed and prevailed for even filing an economic and vocational damages claim. Then an attorney smart enough to hire someone.

    Many thanks to Bob Pare, Matt Simms, Steve Bast and Michelle McBroom Weiss! Each sparked further questions and issues I found value in. Perhaps I will write some outcome if the case settles this year as discovery continues for several months.

    JOHN F. BERG
    Vocational Consulting Inc,
    Seattle, WA




  • 9.  RE: Impact of incarceration on access to professional employment

    Posted 06-13-2024 10:46
    John,

    There's very little published out there with regards to a reduction in earnings related to felony convictions that is specific. Many refer to old and vague data with a simplistic percentage reductions, but the variability of that statistic would be tremendous. There is basically no real peer reviewed and published  methodology for us to apply regarding this that I know of. 

    My best understanding is that reduction in earnings relates to three things, inability to return to the same pre-felony occupation (such as a licensed or professional occupation), negative stigma, and loss in years of experience that drives earnings increase especially for someone in their 20s (age-earnings profiles). But if the person was minimum wage before, there would likely be no loss, so a percentage method may not work. I also do not believe that ex-felons who start their own company are in those statistics. 

    I haven't looked at this in a while, but Needham and Shipp published I think a review of what literature is there. I haven't looked at their conclusions in years so I don't know if this is helpful, but it's worth a look. 

    Journal of Forensic Economics 18(2-3), 2005, pp. 187-195

    ©2006 by the National Association of Forensic Economics

    187

    The Impact of Criminal Convictions on Calculations of Lost

    Earnings in Personal Injury and Wrongful Death: Issues for

    Forensic Economics and Vocational Assessment

    Allyn Needham and Shannon Shipp*



    Kind Regards,

    -----------------------------------
    J. Matthew Sims, MC, MS
    Vocational Economist

    Flagstaff Office:
    Sims & White, PLLC
    223 N. San Francisco St., Suite 103
    Flagstaff, Arizona 86001
    o (602) 253-2033
    c (623) 826-4091
    www.simsandwhite.com